Engineered rule bending
Discussion
mat205125 said:
shoestring7 said:
Use Psychology said:
let's think about this.
concrete is typically less reactive than most metals.
the fuel tank needs to be made of something.
plastic was not invented, certainly not chemically resistant stuff like PTFE.
what did they build the fuel tank for the concrete dissolving fuel from?
I know they had to completely drain the fuel system every time the car was used to prevent the fuel from corroding the tanks and fittings.concrete is typically less reactive than most metals.
the fuel tank needs to be made of something.
plastic was not invented, certainly not chemically resistant stuff like PTFE.
what did they build the fuel tank for the concrete dissolving fuel from?
2. Because they were glass containers
HTH
SS7
Use Psychology said:
wonder if they used hydrazine or some derivative.
sounds a bit dodgy though.
Maybe hydrazine and a bit of nitromethane. sounds a bit dodgy though.
Used in the the 60s in Top Fuel dragster and people have stated the haze and green flame was something to see.
Often ended with a melted motor though...
EDIT: Link posted above backs up what I said and the article mentions Mercedes using it...
mycool said:
Think about the Vectra BTCC car vs. the Vectra Challenge cars which were road car shells - the BTCC car appeared to be visably bigger and not just due to the extended arches.
Not sure they were that different from the road version, a friend had a btcc front bumper and it slotted nicely onto his normal road going vectra. I think the arches were tricked out to fit the wider track but thats all.Use Psychology said:
dragzine said:
Yeah, it’s dangerous stuff. Handled improperly hydrazine will kill you in ways you can’t even spell, but its a glorious part of the history and heritage of the thing we call Fuel racing
t. Mmm, we can use this 
spats said:
mycool said:
Think about the Vectra BTCC car vs. the Vectra Challenge cars which were road car shells - the BTCC car appeared to be visably bigger and not just due to the extended arches.
Not sure they were that different from the road version, a friend had a btcc front bumper and it slotted nicely onto his normal road going vectra. I think the arches were tricked out to fit the wider track but thats all.mad4amanda said:
also didnt someone win the championship at brands and on the slowing down lap pull onto the empty gp loop where the car amazingly caught fire and was effectively destroyed before post race scruitineering?
not a very good job of a coverup there then! unless the car melted from the heat, otherwise the dimensions would still have been modified would they not??
All clever stuff 
johnfelstead said:
No need to switch off to change maps on the factory ECU's. You simply press the rear window demist switch whilst holding full throttle and it switches the map if the second map is enabled.
There is a lot of trick stuff available in the stock Subaru ECU, my own 2005 model has two main maps which i use for running either SUL or Race Fuel, it has launch control so i can sit on the line at full throttle with it held at my chosen rpm building boost for full torque launches. It has individual boost control maps for each gear, so in low load low gears you can ramp up the waste gate duty to atain full boost, in the high demand high gears you can ramp the duty back down, to atain the max safe boost in those gears. Using a single duty for all gears would leave you running much lower torque in the lower gears, which is normal for most turbo road cars.
There are hundreds of functions in there, a lot of which would have been put in place for GroupN PWRC functions, the JDM engine that was homologated for GroupN as fitted to my car even has a charge air temp sensor in the inlet plenum that isnt active until you load up the GroupN ROM and switch the temp input from the MAF sensor to the CAT sensor.
Subaru used to have a cheat in the ECU mapping to get through drive by noise tests during type aproval in the 90's, where you have to do a drive by test at full throttle past a noise meter. To enable the cars to pass, they put in a strategy where if you hold a constant throttle at a certain speed for a few seconds and then go full throttle, it limits the boost to 0.5BAR, which knocks the noise levels low enough to pass the test. Come off the throttle and back on again you instantly get your full boost back.
There is a lot of trick stuff available in the stock Subaru ECU, my own 2005 model has two main maps which i use for running either SUL or Race Fuel, it has launch control so i can sit on the line at full throttle with it held at my chosen rpm building boost for full torque launches. It has individual boost control maps for each gear, so in low load low gears you can ramp up the waste gate duty to atain full boost, in the high demand high gears you can ramp the duty back down, to atain the max safe boost in those gears. Using a single duty for all gears would leave you running much lower torque in the lower gears, which is normal for most turbo road cars.
There are hundreds of functions in there, a lot of which would have been put in place for GroupN PWRC functions, the JDM engine that was homologated for GroupN as fitted to my car even has a charge air temp sensor in the inlet plenum that isnt active until you load up the GroupN ROM and switch the temp input from the MAF sensor to the CAT sensor.
Subaru used to have a cheat in the ECU mapping to get through drive by noise tests during type aproval in the 90's, where you have to do a drive by test at full throttle past a noise meter. To enable the cars to pass, they put in a strategy where if you hold a constant throttle at a certain speed for a few seconds and then go full throttle, it limits the boost to 0.5BAR, which knocks the noise levels low enough to pass the test. Come off the throttle and back on again you instantly get your full boost back.
Flying Toilet said:
Maybe hydrazine and a bit of nitromethane.
...
EDIT: Link posted above backs up what I said and the article mentions Mercedes using it...
I suspect this isn't the full story, but this is the (alleged... ...
EDIT: Link posted above backs up what I said and the article mentions Mercedes using it...
) fuel mix used in the Mercedes W196:"Fuel provided by Esso, designated RD1 contained a witches brew of 45% benzol, 25% methyl alcohol, 25% high octane petrol, 3% acetone and 2% nitro-benzine. "
johnfelstead said:
No need to switch off to change maps on the factory ECU's. You simply press the rear window demist switch whilst holding full throttle and it switches the map if the second map is enabled.
That is how mine worked too, but you had to do it when you switched on the ignition, it was on a 2003 WRX STi Type UK with the PPP. Not got the car any longer but still have copies of the documents for how to work the engine mapping, the car was my brothers and I inherited it when he past away, he was a bit of a computer wizz and there was a lot of software on his laptop for the car and his previous scoobies and software for other vehicles too.Crafty_ said:
I was just reading about Penske "road racing" cars from the late 60s early 70s. They used to run vinyl roofs, the story put about was it created an aero advantage (like dimples on a golf ball). Cynics said it was to hide alterations made to the body. What they all missed were lots of other changes to the car, like a wedge cut out of the front fenders to make the front end slimmer.
They originally slapped that vinyl on the roof:
because they'd illegally acid-dipped a body for too long, and the roof had begun to show wrinkles.
Another trick that Penske/Donohue employed in Trans-Am was with their fuel rig.
The rules stated that the refueling rate during a pit-stop could not be artificially aided - gravity only.
In their pit area, the Penske team erected a frame that held the fuel drum 20' above the ground, to increase the flow rate.
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