Engineered rule bending
Discussion
Le TVR said:
Probably the best piece of rule bending/lateral thinking was the twin floor Lotus.
Similarly in NASCAR Jeff Gordon had a car built for an Allstar race in the mid-90s. It blew away the competition and 'T-Rex' was banned for pushing the envelope of the rules and being a pain in the backside for scrutineers.MrKipling43 said:
Nick3point2 said:
But didn't melt the fuel tank, fuel lines,fuel pump, carbs, inlet manifold, cylinder head, valves, pistons or spark plugs?
I call bulls
t.
Just because a sheet of aluminium is easier to punch a dent in than a block of concrete, doesn't mean that concrete is more stable when exposed to a certain combinations of chemicals.I call bulls
t.entropy said:
llewop said:
The BTCC Alfa Romeo 155s with their extra lift rear wing and front splitter kit that meant they came into the championship with such a bang - overshadowing the novelty value of the Volvo estates that were introduced the same year.
Not really cheating as such. It was to do with homologation. A production version was brought down to satisfy TOCA.
the production cars had a bag of bits in the boot that could (but almost never was!) be fitted to a road car!
Alicatt1 said:
The ECU in my Scooby had enough room for 2 maps, and with a certain button combination you could select which map you started the engine with. Though you had to switch off the ignition before changing maps.
My Evo has two maps which you can switch between using the inter cooler water spray button WHILST THE CAR IS RUNNING. When I first had it done I could scarcely believe that you could flip between engine maps whilst running, including whilst driving along (i.e. at more than tickover). But there you are, it's certainly possible. 
johnfelstead said:
Subaru used to have a cheat in the ECU mapping to get through drive by noise tests during type aproval in the 90's, where you have to do a drive by test at full throttle past a noise meter. To enable the cars to pass, they put in a strategy where if you hold a constant throttle at a certain speed for a few seconds and then go full throttle, it limits the boost to 0.5BAR, which knocks the noise levels low enough to pass the test. Come off the throttle and back on again you instantly get your full boost back.
Just seen this post too. On my Evo I have a standalone boost controller, when you turn it off the car returns to actuator pressure only (about 0.7Bar). It is a good way to pass static noise tests for trackdays... 
In the good old days of Sportscar racing (956 / 962 etc) didn't the ruling body ban changing certain parts of the cars (gearboxes?) etc during the race. So teams would leave a "replacement part" in the oil / lubricant catching container, remove the broken part, drop it in the container and fit the new part?
Cannot think of the team / teams off the top of my head.
Cannot think of the team / teams off the top of my head.
llewop said:
entropy said:
llewop said:
The BTCC Alfa Romeo 155s with their extra lift rear wing and front splitter kit that meant they came into the championship with such a bang - overshadowing the novelty value of the Volvo estates that were introduced the same year.
Not really cheating as such. It was to do with homologation. A production version was brought down to satisfy TOCA.the production cars had a bag of bits in the boot that could (but almost never was!) be fitted to a road car!
All the manufacturers ran spoilers prior to protests over Alfa. It's a bit like the blown diffusers in F1 being pushed to the nth degree or Porsche 911 GT1 and 1990s GTs which were dressed up prototypes but was down to the homologation rules.
Some Gump said:
Smokey Yunick was a fking cheat. The examples given are not clever interpretation of rules, it's out and out cheating and IMO is just as worthy of contempt as a sprinter on steroids.
Disagree, for example there was a rule stating the max. length of the fuel pipe, but not the diameter so he made a fuel pipe 2" wide. If its not against the rules how can it be cheating?king cheat. The examples given are not clever interpretation of rules, it's out and out cheating and IMO is just as worthy of contempt as a sprinter on steroids.Crafty_ said:
Disagree, for example there was a rule stating the max. length of the fuel pipe, but not the diameter so he made a fuel pipe 2" wide. If its not against the rules how can it be cheating?
thats 1 example of bending the rules nicely, Yunick has plenty of other examples where he just plain cheated.Conian said:
Crafty_ said:
Disagree, for example there was a rule stating the max. length of the fuel pipe, but not the diameter so he made a fuel pipe 2" wide. If its not against the rules how can it be cheating?
thats 1 example of bending the rules nicely, Yunick has plenty of other examples where he just plain cheated.In all forms of motorsport, there is always the need to find the edge, to beat everyone else, some find rather more inventive ways than others, but IMHO it doesn't always mean they are cheats, or cheating, just that they are being un-sportsmanlike. Anyway, back to the boobies
Crafty_ said:
Disagree, for example there was a rule stating the max. length of the fuel pipe, but not the diameter so he made a fuel pipe 2" wide. If its not against the rules how can it be cheating?
Ahh, you've done that classic forum thing of picking on one of the few actually decent / clever bits on that post...the post in question said:
One time he had a car in inspection and they were nitpicking, finding minor things (he'd become a bit of a target for this).. they had the fuel tank out of the car to check its capacity. The inspectors told him they'd found 9 infractions, he lost patience, told them "better make it ten", withdrew his entry, jumped in the car car drove back to his workshops near by. The fuel lines were 2" wide and there was something like eleven feet of it in the car.
fir play, a loophole
He found the bellhousing on his car had positive pressure when the car was at higher revs - managed to seal it apart from a hole to let in air and a feed to the intake, rudimentary supercharging.
again, a loophole
The rules at the time mandated that the engine sit central to the chassis. To gain an advantage he built a chassis and offset it to the left, one side had longer suspension arms.
3 in a row, fair play
There is a folklore story that he once built a 7/8ths scale car, whilst this wasn't true (the car had factory wheelbase and length) many panels had been subtley altered to improve airflow. Smokey made a "template" that matched the outline of his car and offered to show inspectors that the template also matched a car in the parking lot - which it did. What they didn't know is Smokey also owned the car in the parking lot.
^which is obviously cheating
In Smokeys time they used to strip engines after races to ensure the parts inside were all factory items. Smokey got round this by making his own parts (cams etc) with factory numbers on them, was good enough to pass inspection.
Blatent, inexcusable cheating
In NASCAR one car always seemed to be low to the ground, frustrated by another fruitless inspection an inspector shouldered into one of the crew stood by the car as he stormed off.. the crew member yelped in pain. He was wearing steel toecap boots, the car was resting on them to make up the extra height, he wasn't able to step back when the inspector barged past him.
fruitless inspection, or an ispector wanting to oust a cheater?
At one time the GT40s in le mans racing had wooden blocks in the springs to pass ride height inspection, once out on track the driver would hit a few kerbs, the wood would break and the car would sit lower.
on the fence on this one
I was just reading about Penske "road racing" cars from the late 60s early 70s. They used to run vinyl roofs, the story put about was it created an aero advantage (like dimples on a golf ball). Cynics said it was to hide alterations made to the body. What they all missed were lots of other changes to the car, like a wedge cut out of the front fenders to make the front end slimmer.
which was against the rules, i presume?
I'm personally totally against cheating. I used to kart, and in a "fixed engine" class saw some of the most blatent cheating done by dads to get their kid at the front - including the "factory part number" trick to use a bigger carb from a different engine, reground cranks to give longer stroke (more CC), reprofiled heads, spurious porting, the list was as long as your arm.fir play, a loophole
He found the bellhousing on his car had positive pressure when the car was at higher revs - managed to seal it apart from a hole to let in air and a feed to the intake, rudimentary supercharging.
again, a loophole
The rules at the time mandated that the engine sit central to the chassis. To gain an advantage he built a chassis and offset it to the left, one side had longer suspension arms.
3 in a row, fair play
There is a folklore story that he once built a 7/8ths scale car, whilst this wasn't true (the car had factory wheelbase and length) many panels had been subtley altered to improve airflow. Smokey made a "template" that matched the outline of his car and offered to show inspectors that the template also matched a car in the parking lot - which it did. What they didn't know is Smokey also owned the car in the parking lot.
^which is obviously cheating
In Smokeys time they used to strip engines after races to ensure the parts inside were all factory items. Smokey got round this by making his own parts (cams etc) with factory numbers on them, was good enough to pass inspection.
Blatent, inexcusable cheating
In NASCAR one car always seemed to be low to the ground, frustrated by another fruitless inspection an inspector shouldered into one of the crew stood by the car as he stormed off.. the crew member yelped in pain. He was wearing steel toecap boots, the car was resting on them to make up the extra height, he wasn't able to step back when the inspector barged past him.
fruitless inspection, or an ispector wanting to oust a cheater?
At one time the GT40s in le mans racing had wooden blocks in the springs to pass ride height inspection, once out on track the driver would hit a few kerbs, the wood would break and the car would sit lower.
on the fence on this one
I was just reading about Penske "road racing" cars from the late 60s early 70s. They used to run vinyl roofs, the story put about was it created an aero advantage (like dimples on a golf ball). Cynics said it was to hide alterations made to the body. What they all missed were lots of other changes to the car, like a wedge cut out of the front fenders to make the front end slimmer.
which was against the rules, i presume?
The daft thing is that at the sharp end of the grid, everyone can tell what others are doing - so of the group up the front 4-5 were really good mates, and 2 were cheaters that noone spoke to. They weren't doing clever engineering, they were breaking the rules to try to compensate for other dad / kid combos getting a better setup that weekend or whatever.
Don't get me wrong, lots of the innovation in F1 for example is brilliant lateral thinking, and I'm all for it - but to me cheating in otorsport is on a par with taking steroids in the olympics, or a low blow in a boxing fight.
Some Gump said:
I'm personally totally against cheating. I used to kart, and in a "fixed engine" class saw some of the most blatent cheating done by dads to get their kid at the front - including the "factory part number" trick to use a bigger carb from a different engine, reground cranks to give longer stroke (more CC), reprofiled heads, spurious porting, the list was as long as your arm.
The daft thing is that at the sharp end of the grid, everyone can tell what others are doing - so of the group up the front 4-5 were really good mates, and 2 were cheaters that noone spoke to. They weren't doing clever engineering, they were breaking the rules to try to compensate for other dad / kid combos getting a better setup that weekend or whatever.
Don't get me wrong, lots of the innovation in F1 for example is brilliant lateral thinking, and I'm all for it - but to me cheating in otorsport is on a par with taking steroids in the olympics, or a low blow in a boxing fight.
Agreed, but as i said, if you want that edge to help you beat your competitors, sooner or later, you push the letter of the law until you break itThe daft thing is that at the sharp end of the grid, everyone can tell what others are doing - so of the group up the front 4-5 were really good mates, and 2 were cheaters that noone spoke to. They weren't doing clever engineering, they were breaking the rules to try to compensate for other dad / kid combos getting a better setup that weekend or whatever.
Don't get me wrong, lots of the innovation in F1 for example is brilliant lateral thinking, and I'm all for it - but to me cheating in otorsport is on a par with taking steroids in the olympics, or a low blow in a boxing fight.
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