Engineered rule bending
Discussion
jsf said:
Slippydiff said:
The drivers who witnessed the aftermath of Henri Toivenen's fatal crash inn Corsica reported the accident looked closer to that of a plane crash than that of a car. I think it safe to say Cesare Fiorio has Henri Toivenen's blood on his hands 
I doubt they would have survived in any car based on the damage the spaceframe structure was subjected to. The car had a massive side impact with a big tree, probably not dissimilar to what happened to Mark Lovell.The Delta S4 was a spaceframe design, with the drivers sitting on top of the fuel cells. The whole car burned to a steel frame, but the damage well inside the cabin area would have killed them anyway IMHO.
Its well reported Henri was taking strong drugs to help him cope with a severe flu fever, that's more likely what caused the crash, he simply shouldn't have been driving under the influence is the consensus some people who were there at the time have said.
It was only going to end one way, it was just a question of when.
jsf said:
I really don't buy this hidden nitrous system, its far too easy to find and if you have ever used nitrous you would know a bottle the size of a fire system doesn't last long at all.
The main benefit of nitrous on a turbo car is to aid spool, not a problem on the Delta S4 (or previous Lancias) as they used a supercharger to boost low down torque, so spooling the turbo was never a problem.
All these Group B cars had their foibles, the 205 T16 had a horrible habbit of kicking the arse in the air on a jump due to the engine install rotational mass, it very nearly killed Ari Vatatanen as a result. His seat failing didn't help much either!
Vatanen's seat failed because it had been cut/modified previously. The 205 T16 underwent prolonged testing to reduce the mid air rotation you've mentioned. The E2 was considerably better than the E1 which Ari crashed in Argentina. You'll note Salonen never complained of the issue in his championship winning year.......The main benefit of nitrous on a turbo car is to aid spool, not a problem on the Delta S4 (or previous Lancias) as they used a supercharger to boost low down torque, so spooling the turbo was never a problem.
All these Group B cars had their foibles, the 205 T16 had a horrible habbit of kicking the arse in the air on a jump due to the engine install rotational mass, it very nearly killed Ari Vatatanen as a result. His seat failing didn't help much either!
Nitrous bottle too easy to find ? It would've appeared to have been the plumbed in onboard fire extinguisher, surprisingly the "extinguisher" wouldn't have had NOS emblazened all over it .......
Nitrous has a cooling effect, which in turn allows you to run higher boost pressures. But it also reduces lag. Corsica has a rather a lot of corners, where lag could be perceived as a problem, irrespective of whether you're running a trick turbo/supercharged set up or not.
And if there was nothing to hide, why were the remaining S4's all shipped off the island that very same evening ..... ?
I've no doubt HT would most likely have been killed irrespective of whether or not NOS played a part. Sitting on a fuel tank which had minimal impact protection (and was probably full of Avgas) meant he stood little chance of surviving, but adding NOS to the mix would have ensured his fate.
But it's true, he was drugged up to the eyeballs, so much so that upon going to get into his car to exit the service area that fateful day, he got into the wrong car ......
He also said to a journalist earlier in the day that "he felt dead" due to the flu/heavy cold he was nursing.
Regrettably it was the Perfect Storm
AW111 said:
I'm pretty sure that trick pre-dates Walkinshaw. The tale I was told was set in the seventies.
Yes.The person who taught me the trick worked on Broadspeed minis and escorts in the sixties, then went to walkinshaws via a few other concerns. One of his first jobs there (after his usual tricks were implemented) was to put some negative camber on the solid axle of the SD1 race car...
The machining involved in that was very impressive. It confused the scrutineers for years...
Justaredbadge said:
AW111 said:
I'm pretty sure that trick pre-dates Walkinshaw. The tale I was told was set in the seventies.
Yes.The person who taught me the trick worked on Broadspeed minis and escorts in the sixties, then went to walkinshaws via a few other concerns. One of his first jobs there (after his usual tricks were implemented) was to put some negative camber on the solid axle of the SD1 race car...
The machining involved in that was very impressive. It confused the scrutineers for years...
SS7
Going back to the altering of the engine mapping via the headlamps....ummm...why would you choose to wire it to something that might raise suspicion quite so obviously?
I know it's not exactly waving a flag saying "I'm cheating" but it smacks a little of a supervillain explaining their dastardly plan to the hero, who's about to die, at the end of a film.
Absolutley not refuting that it happened, just mildly confused at why anyone would seek to remotely advertise that they're cheating.
I know it's not exactly waving a flag saying "I'm cheating" but it smacks a little of a supervillain explaining their dastardly plan to the hero, who's about to die, at the end of a film.
Absolutley not refuting that it happened, just mildly confused at why anyone would seek to remotely advertise that they're cheating.
Edited by DrTre on Saturday 3rd January 19:22
Live axle : 1 degree of negative camber, 10mins of toe-in. Makes the car handle better. Easily done - a bead of weld along the top seam of the axle tubes to achieve the negative camber, then across the front of the tube to achieve the toe-in.
And that brings me on to another common "trick". The 5p coin wedged in the planetary gears in a Formula car diff (like a F3). So long as the car keeps moving forwards, the diff stays locked, requires some serious suspension settings to help too. And to "un-trick" it for scrutineering - push the car backwards and the coin falls out and the open diff is well, open again.
And that brings me on to another common "trick". The 5p coin wedged in the planetary gears in a Formula car diff (like a F3). So long as the car keeps moving forwards, the diff stays locked, requires some serious suspension settings to help too. And to "un-trick" it for scrutineering - push the car backwards and the coin falls out and the open diff is well, open again.
thunderbelmont said:
Live axle : 1 degree of negative camber, 10mins of toe-in. Makes the car handle better. Easily done - a bead of weld along the top seam of the axle tubes to achieve the negative camber, then across the front of the tube to achieve the toe-in.
And that brings me on to another common "trick". The 5p coin wedged in the planetary gears in a Formula car diff (like a F3). So long as the car keeps moving forwards, the diff stays locked, requires some serious suspension settings to help too. And to "un-trick" it for scrutineering - push the car backwards and the coin falls out and the open diff is well, open again.
With a bit of clever thinking you can legally run an element of limited slip on any open diff. It will always pass scrutineering and will pass a full strip down and inspection procedure.And that brings me on to another common "trick". The 5p coin wedged in the planetary gears in a Formula car diff (like a F3). So long as the car keeps moving forwards, the diff stays locked, requires some serious suspension settings to help too. And to "un-trick" it for scrutineering - push the car backwards and the coin falls out and the open diff is well, open again.
The fford I prep has this and has been inspected and passed by an experienced brscc s cut in e'er.
DrTre said:
Going back to the altering of the engine mapping via the headlamps....ummm...why would you choose to wire it to something that might raise suspicion quite so obviously?
I know it's not exactly waving a flag saying "I'm cheating" but it smacks a little of a supervillain explaining their dastardly plan to the hero, who's about to die, at the end of a film.
Absolutley not refuting that it happened, just mildly confused at why anyone would seek to remotely advertise that they're cheating.
Car comes into pit lane, flashes lights to "inform" pit crew car is approaching the pit box. OK flashing lights after the pit stop is a little "harder" to explain.I know it's not exactly waving a flag saying "I'm cheating" but it smacks a little of a supervillain explaining their dastardly plan to the hero, who's about to die, at the end of a film.
Absolutley not refuting that it happened, just mildly confused at why anyone would seek to remotely advertise that they're cheating.
Edited by DrTre on Saturday 3rd January 19:22
AMD87 said:
IanUAE said:
Car comes into pit lane, flashes lights to "inform" pit crew car is approaching the pit box. OK flashing lights after the pit stop is a little "harder" to explain.
I think he's meaning permanently onI know cars run with lights on for intimidation reasons etc, and I take the point about flashing the pits, but it just seems a bit weird to link the ecu to something so obvious.
Anyhoo....a most excellent thread
Justaredbadge said:
With a bit of clever thinking you can legally run an element of limited slip on any open diff. It will always pass scrutineering and will pass a full strip down and inspection procedure.
The fford I prep has this and has been inspected and passed by an experienced brscc s cut in e'er.
I'm not very clever so give me a hint?The fford I prep has this and has been inspected and passed by an experienced brscc s cut in e'er.
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