RE: PH blog: Why Bernie makes me angry

[Pete3690]

The fact he sold out half the rights to sky has started to kill of F1 anyway, give it 2-3 years they will get the full rights and then start mugging people off with there stupid over-priced services.

Last year Bernie claimed F1 would stay on free-to-air TV, that he wouldn't sell out the fans... That lasted long

[zebedee]

DonkeyApple said:

Bernie is sadly absolutely spot on.

It's not too late and Europe should take heed of what everyone like Bernie has known for a long time.

F1 is a visible mirror into the future of global economics and Europe is steering itself with its self rightous laws, global arrogance and posturing and debt ridden lifestyles to be a bit player of the future.

The next generation of designers, engineers, global businesses and people will not be European. Our laws firmly prevent us from competing against the BRICs and our education systems are waning in contrast to their waxing.

Europe is handing its wealth, dominance and future to the BRICs. Bernie sees it and if we open our eyes and look we can very clearly see it as well. Remaining in denial about it is the sure fire way to ensure we end up there. The generation in charge won't change our course as they don't have long to live and are focussed on short term goals of enriching themselves.

I'm not going to disagree with anyone's opinion of Bernie but everyone should take heed of what he portends as he is 100% on the money and we in Europe are living in complete denial about it.

You are talking about the economic condition, like some kind of economist or politician. We are talking about the spectacle of F1. F1 doesn't need to be as expensive as it is, or generate as much money as it does, Bernie just thinks it should. F1 needs passionate and loyal followers. Whether debt-ridden or not they are in the traditional (European and non-European I would add) venues. Chasing new money, where there is no fan base and where in fact they can't even sell tickets at the crazy prices they expect to receive to see their wonderful circus is what is going on and if that alienates vast swathes of F1's fan base I think he is foolish to expect them to be replaced by others.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle I suspect, but slashing european races to only 5 would be a disaster, especially if we lost races like Spa and Monaco.

[anonymous-user]

F1 is the past when it comes to actual sport. It's only real value these days is for corporate entertaiment and corporate willy waving. Good riddance if you dont want to race in Europe, perhaps we can host a few series that will actually matter to the public rather than the F1 circus that has become very predictable and boring IMO.

[vintageracer01]

Who cares what Bernie remembers...

F1 racing history is firstly & mostly EUROPEAN racing history. That is why here is a big fan base. What does this racing history, brands, drivers etc. etc. mean to Indish, Chinese, Korean or Turkish people(nothing against these people, of cause)???

For them there is nothing much of common ground so F1 might come and go just like a fashion. Exception might be South America (Argentina, Brasil) or South Africa, though.

And who cares if F1 loses out...
F1 turned form real enthusiast racing to some sort of TV show.

There are so many much more interesting racing series like Le Mans cars, Touring cars etc.
with so much more racing spirit!

So, there we go...

[DonkeyApple]

zebedee said:

DonkeyApple said:

Bernie is sadly absolutely spot on.

It's not too late and Europe should take heed of what everyone like Bernie has known for a long time.

F1 is a visible mirror into the future of global economics and Europe is steering itself with its self rightous laws, global arrogance and posturing and debt ridden lifestyles to be a bit player of the future.

The next generation of designers, engineers, global businesses and people will not be European. Our laws firmly prevent us from competing against the BRICs and our education systems are waning in contrast to their waxing.

Europe is handing its wealth, dominance and future to the BRICs. Bernie sees it and if we open our eyes and look we can very clearly see it as well. Remaining in denial about it is the sure fire way to ensure we end up there. The generation in charge won't change our course as they don't have long to live and are focussed on short term goals of enriching themselves.

I'm not going to disagree with anyone's opinion of Bernie but everyone should take heed of what he portends as he is 100% on the money and we in Europe are living in complete denial about it.

You are talking about the economic condition, like some kind of economist or politician. We are talking about the spectacle of F1. F1 doesn't need to be as expensive as it is, or generate as much money as it does, Bernie just thinks it should. F1 needs passionate and loyal followers. Whether debt-ridden or not they are in the traditional (European and non-European I would add) venues. Chasing new money, where there is no fan base and where in fact they can't even sell tickets at the crazy prices they expect to receive to see their wonderful circus is what is going on and if that alienates vast swathes of F1's fan base I think he is foolish to expect them to be replaced by others.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle I suspect, but slashing european races to only 5 would be a disaster, especially if we lost races like Spa and Monaco.

I tend to agree but F1 is a corporate entity and there are greater rewards outside of Europe. Far greater.

Maybe if he did pull out of Europe then the idiots who comprise the owners of the European circuits would actually get a grip, stop fannying about and work together to create a European series that they owned and ran and ultimately look to take on F1 when Bernie goes potty or snuffs it.

Bernie as always is playing games and he would never leave Europe and put himself in the position of a rival series actually able to get traction. But he is right in what he is saying and seeing as the big money in the industry is there to sell products and the biggest volume of product sales will be outside of Europe then it doesn't hold a bright future and in all liklihood we will be left with a few flagship races just to retain the heritage the the New World feeds off.

[Riggers]

zebedee said:

DonkeyApple said:

Bernie is sadly absolutely spot on.

It's not too late and Europe should take heed of what everyone like Bernie has known for a long time.

F1 is a visible mirror into the future of global economics and Europe is steering itself with its self rightous laws, global arrogance and posturing and debt ridden lifestyles to be a bit player of the future.

The next generation of designers, engineers, global businesses and people will not be European. Our laws firmly prevent us from competing against the BRICs and our education systems are waning in contrast to their waxing.

Europe is handing its wealth, dominance and future to the BRICs. Bernie sees it and if we open our eyes and look we can very clearly see it as well. Remaining in denial about it is the sure fire way to ensure we end up there. The generation in charge won't change our course as they don't have long to live and are focussed on short term goals of enriching themselves.

I'm not going to disagree with anyone's opinion of Bernie but everyone should take heed of what he portends as he is 100% on the money and we in Europe are living in complete denial about it.

You are talking about the economic condition, like some kind of economist or politician. We are talking about the spectacle of F1. F1 doesn't need to be as expensive as it is, or generate as much money as it does, Bernie just thinks it should. F1 needs passionate and loyal followers. Whether debt-ridden or not they are in the traditional (European and non-European I would add) venues. Chasing new money, where there is no fan base and where in fact they can't even sell tickets at the crazy prices they expect to receive to see their wonderful circus is what is going on and if that alienates vast swathes of F1's fan base I think he is foolish to expect them to be replaced by others.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle I suspect, but slashing european races to only 5 would be a disaster, especially if we lost races like Spa and Monaco.

What Zebedee says. In a PH context I don't give a fig about what the future holds for Europe versus the BRICs and the developing world. All I'm saying is that if you replace venues and countries which have established fan bases and an ingrained motorsport culture with the sort of new races we've seen of late you're playing a risky game with a sport I love.

I don't deny that Ecclestone has moved the sport into the 21st century and done fantastic things for audiences, teams and revenues. And i appreciate that his words are probably posturing. But we still need to respond and prove that we can make F1 a worthwhile asset and activity in Europe!

[Foggy748]

What a jumped up short arse prick that bloke is...F1 would be well rid of him. His greed knows no bounds. I really do hope that all his dissing of Europe comes back to bite him. I would love to see this guy get treated the way he treats others. He can't even bring himself to be civil in front of a TV camera - the very cameras that bring him a lot of his money. fking arsewipe!

[mybrainhurts]

Look on the bright side...

The self-obsessed, nasty little megalomaniac must be about ready to croak...

[dtrump]

RichardR said:

dtrump said:

Wouldn't it be nice if Bernie threw in millions to help make tracks like Donnington super amazing again. He would still have wealth beyond belief, and his family would still be set up for generations. He would go down in history as a human with a heart.

You're making two assumptions there!

silly mistake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc

[Twincam16]

Thing is, if F1 shuffles off to pastures new, we can have our own, uniquely European race series.

We used to have it before. It was called Group C. It was the test cricket to F1's Twenty Twenty, and by the late Eighties was pulling in enormous audiences. So enormous, in fact, that Bernie saw it as a threat to F1 and walloped it with some of the most absurd restrictions yet seen.

If he wants F1 to toddle off and become the sport of choice for the global nouveau-riche, let him, just so long as we get something along the lines of Group C back, racing all over Europe's best circuits - Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Le Mans as a centrepiece, Spa-Francorchamps, Hockenheim, Paul Ricard Le Castellet, Magny-Cours, Monza, Imola, Estoril, Jarama, Zolder - y'know, properly challenging cars-against-the-landscape-and-each-other circuits rather than the clinical Herman Tilke-designed enormodromes where corners have numbers rather than names and the whole thing looks like it was designed using a mixture of a compass, a set square and some Scalextric.

[DonkeyApple]

Riggers said:

zebedee said:

DonkeyApple said:

Bernie is sadly absolutely spot on.

It's not too late and Europe should take heed of what everyone like Bernie has known for a long time.

F1 is a visible mirror into the future of global economics and Europe is steering itself with its self rightous laws, global arrogance and posturing and debt ridden lifestyles to be a bit player of the future.

The next generation of designers, engineers, global businesses and people will not be European. Our laws firmly prevent us from competing against the BRICs and our education systems are waning in contrast to their waxing.

Europe is handing its wealth, dominance and future to the BRICs. Bernie sees it and if we open our eyes and look we can very clearly see it as well. Remaining in denial about it is the sure fire way to ensure we end up there. The generation in charge won't change our course as they don't have long to live and are focussed on short term goals of enriching themselves.

I'm not going to disagree with anyone's opinion of Bernie but everyone should take heed of what he portends as he is 100% on the money and we in Europe are living in complete denial about it.

You are talking about the economic condition, like some kind of economist or politician. We are talking about the spectacle of F1. F1 doesn't need to be as expensive as it is, or generate as much money as it does, Bernie just thinks it should. F1 needs passionate and loyal followers. Whether debt-ridden or not they are in the traditional (European and non-European I would add) venues. Chasing new money, where there is no fan base and where in fact they can't even sell tickets at the crazy prices they expect to receive to see their wonderful circus is what is going on and if that alienates vast swathes of F1's fan base I think he is foolish to expect them to be replaced by others.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle I suspect, but slashing european races to only 5 would be a disaster, especially if we lost races like Spa and Monaco.

What Zebedee says. In a PH context I don't give a fig about what the future holds for Europe versus the BRICs and the developing world. All I'm saying is that if you replace venues and countries which have established fan bases and an ingrained motorsport culture with the sort of new races we've seen of late you're playing a risky game with a sport I love.

I don't deny that Ecclestone has moved the sport into the 21st century and done fantastic things for audiences, teams and revenues. And i appreciate that his words are probably posturing. But we still need to respond and prove that we can make F1 a worthwhile asset and activity in Europe!

I suspect we will start to see multiple races in countries like India and China. Enormous countries with well over a bln people each and burgeoning asperational middle classes which within a few years will dwarf Europe's. Car manufacturers are focussing less on Europe and more on these new economies. Over the next 25 years it is where the sales will be. Europe is stagnant and debt ridden, the people aren't going to be spending big for years to come. We've compreensively screwed ourselves and handed the world on a plate to these rising economies. It's not permanant but while we have leaders who are not focussed on fighting this shift it is almost a given.

I can really see India having 2 or 3 GP circuits and I can easily see the Indian population paying more attention to F1 than us in Europe. It's new, it's brash, it's all about wealth and asperational spending. It's everything that modern F1 is about.

It's all really, really sad but becoming more and more inevitable.

[pagani1]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE -Don't worry guys according to the euro & UK press Bernie stands a chance of going to jail. Whether it's a german jail or an english jail is up for grabs but after the Serious Fraud Office and HMRC review whether his crime is "embezzlement aka paying protection money, via Bambino Trust/Cayman Islands and/or the depressing of the sale price of F1 to CVC Partners and operating/influencing a family trust that is "not his" could have serious ramifications for "El Runt" as I am led to believe he is called in Spain.

[_dobbo_]

plastic toad said:

And exactly who are you to judge my post ?
Having followed F1 since the mid 1970s
and attending at least one GP every year
I am as qualified as any F1 follower to say what I see in anyway I wish

You remind me I why I rarely post on forums
With all of your 1000s of posts I guess you rarely do anything else

Yes my average of about 3 posts a day over the past 10 years has left me little time to do anything else. It's been tough getting by to be honest.

As for you rarely posting on forums - probably for the best petal, you seem conflicted between sharing an opinion and constructing confused prose.

Tell me more about how you hate what Bernie has done to the sport so much that you've spent decades following it.

[KDIcarmad]

Bernie has shown us what he thinks about fans in the UK! Now he showing does not think about the fans anywhere. Take the US, soon to have two GP. No matter how good these races are Indy kart (2 types) and NASCAR will always over overshadow them. Low turn outs, so why Bernie pushing for these. Money, there's lots of money on offer.

Selling the TV around the world is, very important to Bernie and the teams. What he has forgotten is Grand Prix racing is European, F1 and Grand Prix are not necessary the same. F1 came out of Grand Prix racing and has gone global. Bernie has run F1 very well for the teams and the money men not the fans. If he really believe in just a few year F1 will only have 5 races in Europe that creates a gap. I bet the FIA and Bernie hate my next idea. Why don't we start a new racing, just for Europe? Call it Europe Grand Prix. Please comment on this idea. (Should I start this as a topic)

[plastic toad]

_dobbo_ said:

Yes my average of about 3 posts a day over the past 10 years has given me little time to do anything else. It's been tough getting by to be honest.

As for you rarely posting on forums - probably for the best petal, you seem conflicted between sharing an opinion and constructing confused prose.

Tell me more about how you hate what Bernie has done to the sport so much that you've spent decades following it.

You are the epitome of the "i've been on here for years ,it's my place" forum poster
There are far worse posts than mine on this thread that actually have the same point
For a reason known to you only you jump on my case
I joined Pistonheads to talk and discuss with people
Not for wkers like you to jump on me for nothing
so fk off and find someone else to ps off

[pagani1]

I understood from press reports that Bernie was giving up F1 as he had signed on as 2nd dwarf for HBO's Game of Thrones second series. Can anyone confirm this is true?

[VladD]

plastic toad said:

_dobbo_ said:

Yes my average of about 3 posts a day over the past 10 years has given me little time to do anything else. It's been tough getting by to be honest.

As for you rarely posting on forums - probably for the best petal, you seem conflicted between sharing an opinion and constructing confused prose.

Tell me more about how you hate what Bernie has done to the sport so much that you've spent decades following it.

You are the epitome of the "i've been on here for years ,it's my place" forum poster
There are far worse posts than mine on this thread that actually have the same point
For a reason known to you only you jump on my case
I joined Pistonheads to talk and discuss with people
Not for wkers like you to jump on me for nothing
so fk off and find someone else to ps off

I'd suggest that you two continue this via PM. The rest of us don't need to read your personal arguments.

[georgetuk]

Seriously guys, come on he is almost see through in operation these days.

Yes he is annoying idiot but this will be a quote to cosy up to some sponsor or future deal he is doing. I give it 3 months and there will be another far flung track sponsor or something announced.

Would have been clever in days gone by but now it so easy to spot the pattern.

[DonkeyApple]

KDIcarmad said:

Bernie has shown us what he thinks about fans in the UK! Now he showing does not think about the fans anywhere. Take the US, soon to have two GP. No matter how good these races are Indy kart (2 types) and NASCAR will always over overshadow them. Low turn outs, so why Bernie pushing for these. Money, there's lots of money on offer.

Selling the TV around the world is, very important to Bernie and the teams. What he has forgotten is Grand Prix racing is European, F1 and Grand Prix are not necessary the same. F1 came out of Grand Prix racing and has gone global. Bernie has run F1 very well for the teams and the money men not the fans. If he really believe in just a few year F1 will only have 5 races in Europe that creates a gap. I bet the FIA and Bernie hate my next idea. Why don't we start a new racing, just for Europe? Call it Europe Grand Prix. Please comment on this idea. (Should I start this as a topic)

Stands are irrelevant in modern F1. Quite frankly I'm amazed they haven't contemplated just adding them in by CGI yet.

We also have to consider the impact of the new bribery laws in Europe. These laws effectly mean an end to Europe competing against the new world. This change isn't to be taken lightly at any level. Anyone in Europe can now go to jail if they are seen to be incentivising a deal. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The world is bent and very few deals internationally can be done without bribing the correct politicians and businessmen the correct amount. It is business facilitation for them.

India and China et al won't argue with Bernie when he asks for something to be done. You only have to look at the total fiasco that is the BRDC to see an entity that no one in their right mind could be arsed to try and do business with. A mass of semi senile, self serving, egos and some extremely crooked businessmen.

It is all about TV and selling goods, so focus will be on the places where you have the most eyeballs with the most amount of disposeable income. We are working extremely hard to ensure that it will never be Europe again.

[_dobbo_]

plastic toad said:

You are the epitome of the "i've been on here for years ,it's my place" forum poster
There are far worse posts than mine on this thread that actually have the same point
For a reason known to you only you jump on my case
I joined Pistonheads to talk and discuss with people
Not for wkers like you to jump on me for nothing
so fk off and find someone else to ps off

Hey remember what it was like when you had the moral high ground before you started spouting vitriol and abuse? Ah, the good old days.

You are the epitome of a circular argument. You bought up my forum posting record then accused me of using it against you? Well done.

I simply took issue with your statement "Bernie has done more harm than good" - which was an odd thing to say even before admitting you've apparently been an F1 fan throughout the entire time that Bernie has run the sport.

Carry on old chap - and don't get pissed off - after all in your own words who am I to judge your post?