RE: PH blog: Why Bernie makes me angry
Discussion
DJRC said:
Blimey Derek, not like you to miss such an open goal!
I was expecting to get back tonight and read a post from you asking who the hell Teddy Alexander was!!! I did of course mean Teddy Mayer and the only reason I realised that mistake was because I was reading Peter Gethin's obit this evening!
I was too busy stopping myself correcting fore runner.I was expecting to get back tonight and read a post from you asking who the hell Teddy Alexander was!!! I did of course mean Teddy Mayer and the only reason I realised that mistake was because I was reading Peter Gethin's obit this evening!
That is not to mention the use of three exclamation marks. Wow!
Shame about PG.
At Bernie's age, he's allowed to say thing like this.
The grey matter is getting tired, while his business acumen may be as sharp as Wilkinson Sword's finest, his skills for tact and diplomacy have long since left and gone back to his birthplace in Suffolk.
Some call it dementia.
We call it - Bernieism.
One day he'll drop down dead and F1 will lose some of it's colour.
I do get the feeling that Jeremy Clarkson is being groomed to be his replacement.......
The grey matter is getting tired, while his business acumen may be as sharp as Wilkinson Sword's finest, his skills for tact and diplomacy have long since left and gone back to his birthplace in Suffolk.
Some call it dementia.
We call it - Bernieism.
One day he'll drop down dead and F1 will lose some of it's colour.
I do get the feeling that Jeremy Clarkson is being groomed to be his replacement.......
Derek the sport was professional from the early 70s onwards. Luca and Teddy brought that in. Ron and Gp4 famously bought the most professional outfit in Macca because by then the drive was gone, but the outfit was still highly professional.
Ron, Frank/Head and Bernie were pretty much a Cartel in the early 80s and very much responsible for running the sport after the "war". This was why the rise of Balestre was so heated, because he wanted to wrest control back from them.
You are obsessed with the Max and Bernie thing. The 90s Max and Bernie thing was simply and extension of what had been happening during the 80s and Max was used to oust Balestre...who really was a fruitloop. Max couldnt give a monkeys what Bernie did as Max has only ever had one consideration in this game for the last 30 yrs...to f
k Ron up. Max couldnt care less about money, he has always had a stload, he cares power, prestige and his ego. Ron is everything he hated because Ron was everything he wasnt and he kept being more succesful. One day someone will do a proper story on Max and Ron.
Ron, Frank/Head and Bernie were pretty much a Cartel in the early 80s and very much responsible for running the sport after the "war". This was why the rise of Balestre was so heated, because he wanted to wrest control back from them.
You are obsessed with the Max and Bernie thing. The 90s Max and Bernie thing was simply and extension of what had been happening during the 80s and Max was used to oust Balestre...who really was a fruitloop. Max couldnt give a monkeys what Bernie did as Max has only ever had one consideration in this game for the last 30 yrs...to f
k Ron up. Max couldnt care less about money, he has always had a stload, he cares power, prestige and his ego. Ron is everything he hated because Ron was everything he wasnt and he kept being more succesful. One day someone will do a proper story on Max and Ron. This is the point I was making about Colin Chapman. The commercialisation of F1 started long before Bernie trolled up on the scene; although he would have you believe otherwise. He claims to have saved F1, whereas he all he did was spot an opportunity to make shed loads of money for himself.
You are also right about Max Spanky Mosely. He was always jealous of Ron - he succeded where Spanky failed: running an F1 team.
You are also right about Max Spanky Mosely. He was always jealous of Ron - he succeded where Spanky failed: running an F1 team.
DJRC said:
Derek the sport was professional from the early 70s onwards. Luca and Teddy brought that in. Ron and Gp4 famously bought the most professional outfit in Macca because by then the drive was gone, but the outfit was still highly professional.
Ron, Frank/Head and Bernie were pretty much a Cartel in the early 80s and very much responsible for running the sport after the "war". This was why the rise of Balestre was so heated, because he wanted to wrest control back from them.
You are obsessed with the Max and Bernie thing. The 90s Max and Bernie thing was simply and extension of what had been happening during the 80s and Max was used to oust Balestre...who really was a fruitloop. Max couldnt give a monkeys what Bernie did as Max has only ever had one consideration in this game for the last 30 yrs...to fk Ron up. Max couldnt care less about money, he has always had a stload, he cares power, prestige and his ego. Ron is everything he hated because Ron was everything he wasnt and he kept being more succesful. One day someone will do a proper story on Max and Ron.
My argument is not with the actual date of the start of professionalism, which would be pointless as it anything it was an ongoing process, if not from 1949 then at least from the middle 50s. My suggestion is, and I think there is ample evidence to support it, that there was an acceleration with Brabham, Williams and then McLaren. The last two caught the crest of the wave and for 10 years dominated the sport, McLaren normally being the major challenger in those seasons it didn't dominate from then on.Ron, Frank/Head and Bernie were pretty much a Cartel in the early 80s and very much responsible for running the sport after the "war". This was why the rise of Balestre was so heated, because he wanted to wrest control back from them.
You are obsessed with the Max and Bernie thing. The 90s Max and Bernie thing was simply and extension of what had been happening during the 80s and Max was used to oust Balestre...who really was a fruitloop. Max couldnt give a monkeys what Bernie did as Max has only ever had one consideration in this game for the last 30 yrs...to f
k Ron up. Max couldnt care less about money, he has always had a stload, he cares power, prestige and his ego. Ron is everything he hated because Ron was everything he wasnt and he kept being more succesful. One day someone will do a proper story on Max and Ron. That was not as a result of what Bernie did. That's my point.
I too got the impression that the battle between the two men, Mosley and Ron, was as a result of their different 'class': Mosley was the son of two famous people - one ultra rich - and had what he got handed to him on a plate, whereas Ron got to where he did by innate ability and hard work.
You say I'm obsessed by Mosley/Eccs, but that is what this thread is all about. I've hardly mentioned them on the one about Aviva premiership rugby or Inside Job. However, I have two sporting passions, rugby (union of course) and F1. Mosley/Eccs dominated the sport for years and their legacy is the parlous state it is in now.
You mention Balestra being a fruitloop. I'm not so sure. Unlike Mosley, Balestra ran a very successful publishing empire, or to put it another way his business credentials were proven. There is some suggestion (I'll put it lightly) that he favoured specific teams and drivers. Both men were embroiled in suggestions of ultra right wing sympathies. There were problems with photographs that neither men wanted in the public domain. So three out of four for Mosley. Both men struggled with threats of a breakaways series. Four out of five. And Balestra was an enthusiast for all forms of motor sport, leaving all in a stronger position than when he took over. So four out of six then.
You seem to suggest, correct me if I'm wrong, that Mosley was the leader in the partnership between him and Eccs. I'm not so sure. Bernie was the power being the little throne Mosley sat on. It was Mosley's delusions of adequacy that did for him. Eccs came out of the rubble of the FOTA threats untouched. He knew that the only thing of value the FIA had control of was the commercial rights. Without that they were an irrelevance. They are an irrelevance.
Edited by Derek Smith on Friday 9th December 09:40
Professionalism is usually from the point that the employer controls what the employee can do outside of work in sport.
That's the point at which the relationships first require heavy contracts and proper money.
Sponsorship is an odd one as my great grandfather was sponsored by his family business over 100 years ago. And by racing he expanded the reach of the brand.
The old man was sponsoring GP cars in the 60s.
So back to professionalism. At what point did the majority of teams own their drivers and contractually control their sporting and income activities outside of work?
That's the point at which the relationships first require heavy contracts and proper money.
Sponsorship is an odd one as my great grandfather was sponsored by his family business over 100 years ago. And by racing he expanded the reach of the brand.
The old man was sponsoring GP cars in the 60s.
So back to professionalism. At what point did the majority of teams own their drivers and contractually control their sporting and income activities outside of work?
A quick warning to all write on this. A few of the post here could seen as inciting violence against Bernie. I hope no one tries egging him at the British Grand Prix! Or that daughter of his!
Sad that BBC sports personal of the year does not have a most hated section! Bernie would win it by a hundred miles.(Not of course that hey would let him win it, rigged?.) Jeremy Clarkson is currently more popular with unions than Bernie with F1 fans.
Sad that BBC sports personal of the year does not have a most hated section! Bernie would win it by a hundred miles.(Not of course that hey would let him win it, rigged?.) Jeremy Clarkson is currently more popular with unions than Bernie with F1 fans.
pagani1 said:
F1 channel is superb news along with increased coverage of the teams, drivers and practice sessions. Sky HD is £10 per month, the BBBC licence fee is £12.10 per month.
The fundemental flaw in your point is that in order to get the F1 Channel for £10 a month you already need to be paying Sky £20 a month, and of course you still need to be paying the BBC there £12.10 a month. With comments like yours you could be Bernie!There is of course no doubt that Bernie said what he did for reasons of publicity etc. Only time will show if he meant it.
This time next year when the full impact of the decision (yes by the BBC) to move tv in the UK from the BBC to Sky is known, will be the time to see if bernie knows what he talks about. Espeically if viewing figures crash, although dont rely on the viewing figures supplied by F1!
DJRC said:
kiteless said:
DJRC said:
THE Thinwall Wall Special. 4.5ltr Ferrari if memory serves.
IIRC (from reading Stirling Moss' "All My Races" book), weren't all Vanwalls equipped with 4C engines up to a max cc of 2,500?Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff