RE: Nissan DeltaWing: the full story
Discussion
I wonder if the Deltawing concept might make a modern day equivalent of the Lotus 7? A lightweight, low power sporting car that would be a good match for many FWD mechanical packages. Even the torque vectoring part could be achieved with mods to standard ABS / ESP hardware. How about one based around the Micra supercharged triple or a VW 1.2 tsi?
Scuffers said:
sorry to be negative, but why?
as you mentioned Caterham, consider why the wide-track option performs better....
Because you have to try something to find out whether it's better, to compare it, to challenge yourself to learn and improve yourself.as you mentioned Caterham, consider why the wide-track option performs better....
If you didn't do anything that somebody else had already done better then what would your life be left with?
freedman said:
It ran at the very bottom end of the LMP2 field, quicker only than GT cars.
The live timing screen that's available online at the moment shows the best lap times for all the cars. The current leader in LMP2 has a best of 3.41. The fastest LMP2 car is currently 8 laps behind them, but has done a 3.38 lap. The Deltawing did a 3.45, and by design was set up to be more efficient during the race and therefore use less tyres and fuel. Three other LMP2 cars haven't set laps that are quicker than the Deltawing's time. Sounds like quite an impressive performance for its first time out to me...david_b said:
freedman said:
It ran at the very bottom end of the LMP2 field, quicker only than GT cars.
The live timing screen that's available online at the moment shows the best lap times for all the cars. The current leader in LMP2 has a best of 3.41. The fastest LMP2 car is currently 8 laps behind them, but has done a 3.38 lap. The Deltawing did a 3.45, and by design was set up to be more efficient during the race and therefore use less tyres and fuel. Three other LMP2 cars haven't set laps that are quicker than the Deltawing's time. Sounds like quite an impressive performance for its first time out to me...david_b said:
The live timing screen that's available online at the moment shows the best lap times for all the cars. The current leader in LMP2 has a best of 3.41. The fastest LMP2 car is currently 8 laps behind them, but has done a 3.38 lap. The Deltawing did a 3.45, and by design was set up to be more efficient during the race and therefore use less tyres and fuel. Three other LMP2 cars haven't set laps that are quicker than the Deltawing's time. Sounds like quite an impressive performance for its first time out to me...
First and last time out I imagine, wher else is it ever going to race?Scuffers said:
all irrelevant as it does not even come close to meeting the same regs as LMP2 cars have to run to.
In fact it does it with less than the same regs. Less horsepower, less weight, smaller wings, smaller tyres... yet the same laptime! That aside, I agree that the technical regulations are not important. The relevance of this car is the race it is in and the competition it is against. When you consider the technical specifications of this car against the all cars in the race and the context of the demands of the race itself (duration, speed, long lap, fuel consumption etc) you appreciate its capabilities and performance. The regulations are not important.
But I know your argument style and you will claim that without regulations it is not relevant. This is ignorant to the demands of the race and cars of all 4 sets of regulations (and many other sets of regulations in the past) suffer at the hands of this race.
kind of struggle with this kind of argument...
it either runs to the regs or not, if not, then you can't compare it with cars that do.
it would be like asking to enter F1 with an unrestricted engine, and 100Kg's less weight.
only light would be to make up a set of regs for similar cars, make enough of them and then go racing.
it either runs to the regs or not, if not, then you can't compare it with cars that do.
it would be like asking to enter F1 with an unrestricted engine, and 100Kg's less weight.
only light would be to make up a set of regs for similar cars, make enough of them and then go racing.
zac510 said:
In fact it does it with less than the same regs. Less horsepower, less weight, smaller wings, smaller tyres... yet the same laptime!
That aside, I agree that the technical regulations are not important. The relevance of this car is the race it is in and the competition it is against. When you consider the technical specifications of this car against the all cars in the race and the context of the demands of the race itself (duration, speed, long lap, fuel consumption etc) you appreciate its capabilities and performance. The regulations are not important.
But I know your argument style and you will claim that without regulations it is not relevant. This is ignorant to the demands of the race and cars of all 4 sets of regulations (and many other sets of regulations in the past) suffer at the hands of this race.
Safety wise it meets the requirements - they wouldn't have let it in otherwise. It's an experiement really - and given that they showed it's possible to reduce weight and power that much and still produce a racecar capable of lapping in the same ballpark as an LMP2 I think it was quite a big success really. That aside, I agree that the technical regulations are not important. The relevance of this car is the race it is in and the competition it is against. When you consider the technical specifications of this car against the all cars in the race and the context of the demands of the race itself (duration, speed, long lap, fuel consumption etc) you appreciate its capabilities and performance. The regulations are not important.
But I know your argument style and you will claim that without regulations it is not relevant. This is ignorant to the demands of the race and cars of all 4 sets of regulations (and many other sets of regulations in the past) suffer at the hands of this race.
Scuffers said:
kind of struggle with this kind of argument...
it either runs to the regs or not, if not, then you can't compare it with cars that do.
it would be like asking to enter F1 with an unrestricted engine, and 100Kg's less weight.
only light would be to make up a set of regs for similar cars, make enough of them and then go racing.
Well to me your argument of saying it runs to the regs or not ignores that there's a race on. To take your argument it to a not too distant extreme is to say there's no point in having a race because all cars meet the regulations.it either runs to the regs or not, if not, then you can't compare it with cars that do.
it would be like asking to enter F1 with an unrestricted engine, and 100Kg's less weight.
only light would be to make up a set of regs for similar cars, make enough of them and then go racing.
I'm saying the race alone is harsher than the regulations. In 24hrs there's so much scope for human error, mechanical failure, etc. Regulations have not made any car immune to these in the last 22.5 hours.
In a 300km sprint race like an F1 race I'd agree with your point, but LM is different and that's why the ACO have let this car race at Le Mans.
Scuffers said:
it either runs to the regs or not, if not, then you can't compare it with cars that do.
I was responding specifically to a post that said It ran at the very bottom end of the LMP2 field, quicker only than GT cars.. Hence posting the actual times for the cars it was being compared against...Scuffers said:
kind of struggle with this kind of argument...
it either runs to the regs or not, if not, then you can't compare it with cars that do.
it would be like asking to enter F1 with an unrestricted engine, and 100Kg's less weight.
only light would be to make up a set of regs for similar cars, make enough of them and then go racing.
Scuffers struggles with any kind of argument that doesn't agree with his.it either runs to the regs or not, if not, then you can't compare it with cars that do.
it would be like asking to enter F1 with an unrestricted engine, and 100Kg's less weight.
only light would be to make up a set of regs for similar cars, make enough of them and then go racing.
Sorry Scuffers, but your posts are becoming more and more tedious.
I loved the Delta and I would love to see more cars of similar radical appearance.
And do you know why I liked - because it is different. No other reason.
Eric Mc said:
Scuffers struggles with any kind of argument that doesn't agree with his.
Sorry Scuffers, but your posts are becomeing more and more tedious.
I loved the Delta and I would love to see more cars of similar radical appearance.
And do you know why I liked - because it is different. No other reason.
careful.....Sorry Scuffers, but your posts are becomeing more and more tedious.
I loved the Delta and I would love to see more cars of similar radical appearance.
And do you know why I liked - because it is different. No other reason.
your bordering on getting personal again....
Le Mans has all ways been about the advancement of technology and testing new concepts.
The deltawing was all about producing a car that does a lap time similar to lmp2 but on a different set of regs which it has done. Any regs in any formulae of racing are designed with a set lap time in mind. So it definitely has relevance. I hope It continues to race and become as developed as all the other cars to see how it actually runs over a longer race.
The deltawing was all about producing a car that does a lap time similar to lmp2 but on a different set of regs which it has done. Any regs in any formulae of racing are designed with a set lap time in mind. So it definitely has relevance. I hope It continues to race and become as developed as all the other cars to see how it actually runs over a longer race.
freedman said:
TBH the 24 hour Nissan ****athon is seriously grating
Well we can agree on that, Darren Cox's hourly visit to the RLM or ES comms box to bang the gt academy, deltawing, launched a pimped Juke in the LM paddock drum is as repetitive as it is turning me off Nissan #overexposedThe idea and concept was designed for oval racing.
I'd be genuinely interested to see what it could do on an oval, but I think that the pisstaking is correct.
There's a reason that cars are designed with a wide front track, often wider at the front than the rear (I'm deliberately ignoring the 911 here), this takes an interesting concept and then engineers around all the problems that are present.
I can't help but think that if they'd gone down the route of applying to the ACO to have a "half the weight but half the power) car that conformed to some kind of regulations, the entry would have been far more credible than how it ended.
I think that someone missed a trick and got caught up in a gimmick.
I don't see any of the technology transferring to a road car apart from the underbody aero (which has been known about since the mid sixties.
I'd be genuinely interested to see what it could do on an oval, but I think that the pisstaking is correct.
There's a reason that cars are designed with a wide front track, often wider at the front than the rear (I'm deliberately ignoring the 911 here), this takes an interesting concept and then engineers around all the problems that are present.
I can't help but think that if they'd gone down the route of applying to the ACO to have a "half the weight but half the power) car that conformed to some kind of regulations, the entry would have been far more credible than how it ended.
I think that someone missed a trick and got caught up in a gimmick.
I don't see any of the technology transferring to a road car apart from the underbody aero (which has been known about since the mid sixties.
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