F1 to be floated

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Discussion

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Thursday 22nd March 2012
quotequote all
DJRC said:
Christ Derek but you dont half talk some crap.

Its just one of Bernie's "putting up the balloon" ideas. Do it and see what the reaction is. That will help inform the eventual planned action, which whatever it will end up being with have had considerable Macca input.

You do love your sensationalist grand standing.
Well of course it is. There will be an agreement between the teams and everything will be flowers and choclates again. Money has nothing to do with it.

The thing with a theory is that you need something to support it.

There needs to be a reason for the rats jumping from the FOTA ship. If this is indeed just another balloon then one must ask oneself why did one of the parties to the sell off suddenly put pressure on Sky News to pull a news story.

This alone is big news: BSB interfering in the editorial independence of Sky News. Do you fail to see this?

This year will see the end of the concord agreement. It is the most critical time for the sport. Do you suggest this is the time for kite-flying?

And here you are suggesting that the idea of RB and Ferrari being taken on board as the price for their sabotaging of FOTA is far-fetched grandstanding. Ferrari have done it before. That is, in my experience, reason for them doing it again. There have been other teams which jumped ship on the promise of financial returns.

Are you suggesting that there are no back door deals in the negotiations? That Bernie will not go for what gives him the maximum return? That the future of the sport is his guiding principle? 'Cause I'd argue against all three.

The FIA is neutered. FOTA now has little authority. Ecclestone wants to sell up, realise his assets. His daughters' houses don't come cheap you know. Their handbags alone would feed a medium sized country in Africa if they were sold off.

I would agree that this is not a done deal. Bernie is no longer the puppet master, if he ever was, and his days of pulling strings might well be coming to an end. RD would obviously have known why RB and Ferrari opted for the pull of money over loyalty and would, no doubt, have planned his response. Merc is powerful too. There response might will be critical.

We have Australia saying that they don't want to pay all this money to host F1, Spain saying they don't want two GPs and Germany is also considering whether to bother. Maybe even France will not run a GP.

And you seem to be suggesting that RD will be fooled by Bernie 'putting up a balloon'. I don't think so somehow. If you can see through it so easily then there is every chance Ron might as well.

Something is happening. Of course it is as something must happen to overcome the lack of a concord deal. I don't think that the negotiations will all out in the open. Just a hunch there. That thought maybe 'crap' as you say. We'll see.

Bernie appears to be on the back foot. The time to sell up would, I would have thought, been once the concord agreement is signed on the dotted. But circumstances dictate even for little Bern. Whilst this is hardly cobbled together, it is done at a time when it might well be considered to be a buyers' market.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Thursday 22nd March 2012
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
DJRC said:
Christ Derek but you dont half talk some crap.

Its just one of Bernie's "putting up the balloon" ideas. Do it and see what the reaction is. That will help inform the eventual planned action, which whatever it will end up being with have had considerable Macca input.

You do love your sensationalist grand standing.
Well of course it is. There will be an agreement between the teams and everything will be flowers and choclates again. Money has nothing to do with it.

The thing with a theory is that you need something to support it.

There needs to be a reason for the rats jumping from the FOTA ship. If this is indeed just another balloon then one must ask oneself why did one of the parties to the sell off suddenly put pressure on Sky News to pull a news story.

This alone is big news: BSB interfering in the editorial independence of Sky News. Do you fail to see this?

This year will see the end of the concord agreement. It is the most critical time for the sport. Do you suggest this is the time for kite-flying?

And here you are suggesting that the idea of RB and Ferrari being taken on board as the price for their sabotaging of FOTA is far-fetched grandstanding. Ferrari have done it before. That is, in my experience, reason for them doing it again. There have been other teams which jumped ship on the promise of financial returns.

Are you suggesting that there are no back door deals in the negotiations? That Bernie will not go for what gives him the maximum return? That the future of the sport is his guiding principle? 'Cause I'd argue against all three.

The FIA is neutered. FOTA now has little authority. Ecclestone wants to sell up, realise his assets. His daughters' houses don't come cheap you know. Their handbags alone would feed a medium sized country in Africa if they were sold off.

I would agree that this is not a done deal. Bernie is no longer the puppet master, if he ever was, and his days of pulling strings might well be coming to an end. RD would obviously have known why RB and Ferrari opted for the pull of money over loyalty and would, no doubt, have planned his response. Merc is powerful too. There response might will be critical.

We have Australia saying that they don't want to pay all this money to host F1, Spain saying they don't want two GPs and Germany is also considering whether to bother. Maybe even France will not run a GP.

And you seem to be suggesting that RD will be fooled by Bernie 'putting up a balloon'. I don't think so somehow. If you can see through it so easily then there is every chance Ron might as well.

Something is happening. Of course it is as something must happen to overcome the lack of a concord deal. I don't think that the negotiations will all out in the open. Just a hunch there. That thought maybe 'crap' as you say. We'll see.

Bernie appears to be on the back foot. The time to sell up would, I would have thought, been once the concord agreement is signed on the dotted. But circumstances dictate even for little Bern. Whilst this is hardly cobbled together, it is done at a time when it might well be considered to be a buyers' market.
Eh? I wasnt suggesting Ron was being fooled, I was suggesting the complete opposite that Ron and Macca knew exactly what was going on, were in discussion with Bernie and the boys and that *you* were the one doing the headless chicken act. As you always do.

Editorial independence of Sky News? Why the hell should I care if they are biased or not? I prefer to read The Times as my paper of choice, I know which way they can lean in some of their articles, strangely enough though I regard myself as cynical enough to know my PR. Whether or ppl do or not is neither here nor there to me.

Nor was I suggesting RB and Ferrari were grandstanding. I said *you* were grandstanding...I was insulting you Derek, not RB or Ferrari. Or rather you and your mouthy ego were grandstanding as is your usual want, to flaunt whichever random anti-Bernie theories are floating through your brain today.

Of course Ferrari would look to sink FOTA and Concord, of course they have form. They have done for the last 50 yrs, they arent about to change soon. Whatever is good for Ferrari comes before everything else. Twas always thus, it will always be thus.

And Bernie isnt "on the back foot". He just wants to bloody retire. For the *3rd* time and this time properly without anyone fking it up which so far the sport has conspired to do the previous 2 attempts he made at retiring. It isnt a buyers market either, it is a sellers market. He has 6 WCs on the grid, the biggest 2 marketable Brits of the last 30 yrs as teammates and rivals, the biggest 2 German stars of all time, a Spaniard drawing in the Spanish audience and the biggest selling/highest profile "youth profile" brand in the world in RB. That is a selling product.

It wont kill Grand Prix no matter what happens out of these deals because guys like Ferrari and Macca will still want to race the fastest cars they can make. So they will. Ergo F1/GP racing will live on in some guise or other.

MissChief

7,092 posts

167 months

Thursday 22nd March 2012
quotequote all
Personally I suspect Ron Dennis is absolutely livid, but knows better than to spit feathers in Bernie's direction or say anything to the press.

What Bernie fails to realise is as soon as Formula one stops being the prime marketing opportunity that Red Bull can use, they'll sell both their teams for the best price they can get, regardless who is buying. The Independant teams are the lifeblood of the sport. They exist to go racing, although McLaren may have seen the writing on the wall years ago and decided all their eggs in F1 may be a bad idea.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Mercedes don't have full ownership of the team and only have a 51% share and the old owners of Brawn, including Ross have the rest? Mercedes could easily walk away too, as many other manufacturers have done when times are bad or the CEO decides it's too expensive for the return they get. Having said that mercedes have always been interested, but how interested will they be when McLaren have a new engine from someone else and they're struggling to get on the podium or make a concerted title challenge year after year?

Ferrari will always do what's best for Ferrari, that much is a given. I really don't agree with Red bull being on the board or being involved though. They're a late comer and, IMO are nothing compared to Williams or McLaren. it seems obvious that's why Ferrari and RB left FOTA. IMO it's also obvious that RB and Ferrari have routinely flouted the Resource Restriction Agreement in various ways and don't want to be caught red handed. They only say they want the RRA in the hope it will limit other teams abilities to perform when they're routinely spending more for greater benefit.

Could F1 survive a breakaway without Ferrari? Probably, but it wouldn't be pretty. It could work though, stick to the classic tracks, but I'm sure Bernie wouldn't let that happen.

Eric Mc

121,680 posts

264 months

Friday 23rd March 2012
quotequote all
I long for the day that we have a European centric Gtand Prix series (I don't care if it's called F1, Formula 1 or even Formula A).

Pereferably with closed road circuits and no wings smile

MissChief

7,092 posts

167 months

Friday 23rd March 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I long for the day that we have a European centric Gtand Prix series (I don't care if it's called F1, Formula 1 or even Formula A).

Pereferably with closed road circuits and no wings smile
If they do it'll be on Sky. laugh

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Friday 23rd March 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I long for the day that we have a European centric Gtand Prix series (I don't care if it's called F1, Formula 1 or even Formula A).

Pereferably with closed road circuits and no wings smile
Such dreams. You never know your luck.

Eric Mc

121,680 posts

264 months

Friday 23rd March 2012
quotequote all
MissChief said:
Eric Mc said:
I long for the day that we have a European centric Gtand Prix series (I don't care if it's called F1, Formula 1 or even Formula A).

Pereferably with closed road circuits and no wings smile
If they do it'll be on Sky. laugh
Probably.

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Saturday 24th March 2012
quotequote all
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...

Macca, it would appear, are in the 'minority'.

Time was when you could set alight to a car, a driver, pit crew, the pitlane and front pages around the world and get a pat on the head if you had a certain German in your team.

Scumacher has, it seems, passed his eat-by date.

ralphrj

3,500 posts

190 months

Saturday 24th March 2012
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
Macca, it would appear, are in the 'minority'.
McLaren have signed, apparently.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98347

Autosport said:
Although the identity of all the teams involved was not announced, AUTOSPORT understands that the outfits that have reached an agreement with Ecclestone are Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren, Lotus, Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso.

That means that those yet to commit are Mercedes, Williams, Caterham, Marussia and HRT.

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Saturday 24th March 2012
quotequote all
ralphrj said:
Derek Smith said:
Macca, it would appear, are in the 'minority'.
McLaren have signed, apparently.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98347

Autosport said:
Although the identity of all the teams involved was not announced, AUTOSPORT understands that the outfits that have reached an agreement with Ecclestone are Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren, Lotus, Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso.

That means that those yet to commit are Mercedes, Williams, Caterham, Marussia and HRT.
Hmm. More like 50:50 so no overwhelming majority.

Williams surprises me. I would have put odds on them signing. I wonder if McL have been offered anything to get them onside.

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Saturday 24th March 2012
quotequote all
I wonder if the FIA get anything. Not that we will be told the details of course.

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Saturday 24th March 2012
quotequote all
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...

Merc unhappy. Threatening legal action.

There are reports that the value of the sport is not expected to get anywhere near the proposed $10bn. Macca going to the EU isn't going to help matters. In the old days there was Mosley to pull a point of view but now it is all down to Ecclestone.

Back in the dark agaes the EU was going to make severe demands on the sport but then lost interest when the person in charge of the attack was suddenly removed, for reasons which would have escaped me had I known them, and replaced by someone who wasn't quite so enthusiastic with regards enforcing decisions. Without Macca though things might be different.

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/on-flota...

Saward: an interesting article on the floatation. Some difficult to follow, for me anyway, comments as well.

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Saturday 28th April 2012
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The Telegraph said:
[url]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/me...
[/url]

and finished with:

"This month CVC secured a new $2.3bn loan, due by 2018, to refinance the previous debt and make a one-off cash payment of $1.1bn to Delta Topco. This may be paid as a dividend, giving F1’s shareholders a further boost before the IPO."

If that doesn't get you reaching for your wallet, nothing will.

Great Dane

2,719 posts

165 months

Sunday 29th April 2012
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groomi

9,317 posts

242 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2012
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99763

CVC have offloaded some of their exposure to F1.

Good/bad/indifferent?

Eric Mc

121,680 posts

264 months

Wednesday 23rd May 2012
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To whom?

belleair302

6,833 posts

206 months

Monday 28th May 2012
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Old news^^^^ Some went to BlackRock, some to the global investment fund of Norway and some to another US based investment trust in Pennsylvania I believe. Who knows Apple or Facebook may buy the whole thing before lunch one morning backed by Abu Dhabi and Qatar?

arollingstone

107 posts

147 months

Tuesday 12th June 2012
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Derek Smith said:
I was at Spa some years ago and a support race was historic sports cars, with a T70, Ford GT40s, a Jaguar - the crowd were entranced by them. I was in the pits at the bottom of Eau Rouge. Stunning!





Nothing better than adding historic cars to the mix biggrin

Derek Smith

Original Poster:

45,459 posts

247 months

Wednesday 4th July 2012
quotequote all
http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/421598/Eccl...

It seems that the Gribkowsky fallout has yet to settle.

It would appear, if reports are correct, that Ecclestone will be suspended from post if charges are put to him. Some reports suggest this is likely while other say that the prosecutors have some way to go to prepare the case.

Whichever is right, and whether or not Ecclestone is charged, the threat is very real. This year's floation has probably suffered a mortal wound. Who would invest with this sort of scandal threatening?

If the foatation does not go ahead then is a sale likely?