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muppetdave
1,799 posts
94 months
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Eric Mc said: Keep everyone on their toes and slightly in the dark - that's the secret. That's Bernie's tactic for everything isn't it? Not just technology...
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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rdjohn said: So would we like to see Usain Bolt running with just 1 shoe, or goals so large that football match score lines read 34 - 36?
It would make great TV. Unlike athletics, Motor sport is very much based on technical formulae and specifications. That fact is even reflected in the titles the categories of motor sport are labelled with. I can't see the problem with those fotrmulae being tweaked and amended on a regular basis to keep everybody on their toes.
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rdjohn
Original Poster
867 posts
64 months
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Eric Mc said: Unlike athletics, Motor sport is very much based on technical formulae and specifications. That fact is even reflected in the titles the categories of motor sport are labelled with. Like GP2 and GP3? Technical regulations are used to bring about a level playing field throughout all categories of motorsport, so it is driver skill that becomes paramount. The current tyres just introduce a high degree of randomness. i.e. they make it more of a lottery. It is hard to think of a metaphor comparable to asking Pirelli to design non-durable tyres, but it is akin to asking a structural engineer to design a bridge that will collapse after 5 – 6 years have elapsed. TV cameras would know when it was about to happen, so it would make a great human interest story. Yes, I know, it is daft.
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zac510
4,956 posts
75 months
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Why do you think the teams are perfect and the tyres poor?
Can you prove to me that it's not the tyres that are perfect and the teams' use of them not poor?
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oyster
5,203 posts
117 months
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Crafty_ said: owner of the dominant team for the last 2 years only wins 1 out of the first 5 races and his cars often appear to be off the pace.
No agenda there then.
I wish all this p*ssing and moaning about the tyres would stop.
Red Bulls problem (and the same goes for other "top" teams) is nothing to do with tyres, its the fact that EBD was banned and without it their aero is not hugely better better than anyone elses. If we still had EBD you'd see the usual suspects up front.
In any case I don't see what the problem with F1 is. I know its unusual but we actually get to see some racing and *gasp* overtaking. It seems some people want to go back to the processional races of 10 years ago. Can you tell me what 'racing' you've witnessed this season so far? Last weekend I watched one of the raciest drivers out there (LH) have to tip-toe round to make sure his tyres didn't fall off a cliff.
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zac510
4,956 posts
75 months
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I saw him go from 24th to 8th and beat his teammate in a hugely underrated drive.
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egomeister
4,054 posts
132 months
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Crafty_ said: If we still had EBD you'd see the usual suspects up front. They do still have EBD though, its just not as obvious or powerful as last year. Maybe some teams have adapted better than others.
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realjv
331 posts
35 months
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Just like last year it will all settle down into a much more stable order as the season progresses. With such limited winter testing the teams are still learning the tyre characteristics and will adjust their simulations and setups to get the best compromise.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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oyster said: Crafty_ said: owner of the dominant team for the last 2 years only wins 1 out of the first 5 races and his cars often appear to be off the pace.
No agenda there then.
I wish all this p*ssing and moaning about the tyres would stop.
Red Bulls problem (and the same goes for other "top" teams) is nothing to do with tyres, its the fact that EBD was banned and without it their aero is not hugely better better than anyone elses. If we still had EBD you'd see the usual suspects up front.
In any case I don't see what the problem with F1 is. I know its unusual but we actually get to see some racing and *gasp* overtaking. It seems some people want to go back to the processional races of 10 years ago. Can you tell me what 'racing' you've witnessed this season so far? Last weekend I watched one of the raciest drivers out there (LH) have to tip-toe round to make sure his tyres didn't fall off a cliff. And he still managed to climb from 24th to 8th. Not bad for a guy who was "struggling". It's part of the curent game - get on with it.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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realjv said: Just like last year it will all settle down into a much more stable order as the season progresses. With such limited winter testing the teams are still learning the tyre characteristics and will adjust their simulations and setups to get the best compromise. Absolutely. So next year and for each and every year, a new "wobbly" should get thrown into the mix by the regulators. As I keep saying, teams have such vast resources available to them, they learn and understand how to make the cars perform well to any rule changes very quickly. They are very clever chaps. They need to be kept off balance to stop the sport degenerating into a processional farce - as it had done for far too long. And don't say that such tactics are somehow artificial. ALL rules in motor racing (and to some exctent, all sport) are "artificial". It's just that motor sport has a lot more rules due to the highly technical nature of the activity.
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oyster
5,203 posts
117 months
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zac510 said: I saw him go from 24th to 8th and beat his teammate in a hugely underrated drive. It was a great drive. But he didn't race his way to 8th. He nursed his way to 8th.
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Gaz.
47,128 posts
120 months
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I've combined the three identical topics so we only have one tyre thread going around in circles.
Rdjohn please don't feel the need to start a 4th thread if someone else makes a sound bite that suits your arguement.
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Scuffers
10,404 posts
143 months
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oyster said: zac510 said: I saw him go from 24th to 8th and beat his teammate in a hugely underrated drive. It was a great drive. But he didn't race his way to 8th. He nursed his way to 8th. exactly. what would he have done if he could have pushed for every lap? (and yes, I appreciate others would have been able to too) Yes, the result might well have been the same, but the spectacle would have been something to see...
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Munter
23,678 posts
110 months
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Scuffers said: exactly.
what would he have done if he could have pushed for every lap?
(and yes, I appreciate others would have been able to too)
Yes, the result might well have been the same, but the spectacle would have been something to see... ...something less interesting.
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Rude-boy
15,509 posts
102 months
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Don’t worry Eric. We have one of the best and most open F1 seasons in history before us and there are still a bunch of malcontents moaning about it. I am sure that they would rather that we went back to the ‘good old days’ when you genuinely could watch Qualifying on Saturday and the results would read the same by 6pm on Sunday, bar the odd retirement. I really don’t get all this ‘it’s a lottery,’ ‘there is no racing,’ and ‘it’s all artificial’ BS. Life is a lottery and you just have to plan for it as best you can with the hand you have to play, at least everyone has access to the same tyres, that some of the top drivers and teams appear to be doing a piss poor job of dealing with them is not a tyre problem, it’s their problem. There has been loads of racing going on if you were watching the race and not getting wound up that your pet team or driver can’t get their stuff together. DRS and KERS have contributed to this very much and we have seen just how much better the racing is when you don’t have 14 cars stuck behind one guy who is 2 seconds a lap off the pace but can block most of the lap and is quick enough in the one or two passing places. As for artificial – give me a break the whole sport is artificial unless you can show me the bloke born with 4 wheels, an engine and who runs on petrol. I will say it again – this is a fantastic season and is shaping up to be one of the best ever. If you are unhappy at what you are seeing on your TV then I can only assume that you are not a motorsport or even an F1 fan but a team/driver supporter and that it can’t be your team/driver at the top and if they are then stop your b  hing. At the end of the day though we get a season like this every 15-20 years or so and then it goes back to the norm so the supporters can go back to their little Worlds happy as larry and us dyed in the wool motorsports fans can go back to having an interest in F1 and getting our kicks from other areas of the sport where you can’t be certain that one of 3 drivers will win 3 weeks before the race.
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hairykrishna
8,968 posts
72 months
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I realise the tyres are supposed to be a 'unknown' but for me it seems to have gone a little bit too far with the need to preserve them. Last race underlined it for me - Kimi essentially had one chance at a pass then he was buggered for the rest of the race.
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Adrian W
8,107 posts
97 months
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Rude-boy said: lots of stuff Maybe they should change the rules so all of the cars are identical but keep these useless tyres. Think of the cost savings, they could feed several third world countries, Hang on.......that was A1GP and that didn't last long.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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Are you too young to remember the days when preserving many aspects of the car was an integral part of F1?
Being a successful grand prix driver was as much to do with that as it was to do with having the ability to plant one's foot to the floor a drive flat out 100% of the time.
Did it make Fangio or Clark poorer drivers than Schumacher or Villeneuve?
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Munter
23,678 posts
110 months
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Adrian W said: Maybe they should change the rules so all of the cars are identical but keep these useless tyres.
Think of the cost savings, they could feed several third world countries,
Hang on.......that was A1GP and that didn't last long. Which of the points you raise are related to something he posed about?
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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Adrian W said: Rude-boy said: lots of stuff Maybe they should change the rules so all of the cars are identical but keep these useless tyres. Think of the cost savings, they could feed several third world countries, Hang on.......that was A1GP and that didn't last long. One of the great things about this year is that the variations in tyre wear are precisely showing us differences in behaviour of the various chassis and driver combinations. I am finding the whole thing absolutely enthralling.
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