Pirelli tyres

[zac510]

You guys have your mind made up already that the tyres are solely to blame for different results this year.

Many people have made excellent cases for how more than one factor, technical, weather or tyres have contributed to this year but also how nothing has really changed at all. When something is mixed up like this there's rarely one single factor but admittedly Pirelli have thrown one helluva curveball

In the face of such stubbornness this thread really has run its course, but some great opinions and information have come out of it. To take the notes from it would create a great set of puzzle pieces, when put together show an intriguing bigger picture.

Edited by zac510 on Wednesday 23 May 12:52

[Eric Mc]

I agree.

The thread has grown tyred.

Or should I say that the tyre has worn out its thread.

[heebeegeetee]

zac510 said:

You guys have your mind made up already that the tyres are solely to blame for different results this year.

Many people have made excellent cases for how more than one factor, technical, weather or tyres have contributed to this year but also how nothing has really changed at all.

I don't recall the results in F1 being as random as they are right now, but possibly we've had all the other factors for many a decade.

[Scuffers]

heebeegeetee said:

zac510 said:

You guys have your mind made up already that the tyres are solely to blame for different results this year.

Many people have made excellent cases for how more than one factor, technical, weather or tyres have contributed to this year but also how nothing has really changed at all.

I don't recall the results in F1 being as random as they are right now, but possibly we've had all the other factors for many a decade.

to a point, your right, the issue here is that over the last few years, the regs have been nailed down to the point that there is little difference between the cars (I am on about the front of the grid here), compared to years gone by, the days of McLaren having a 2+ sec's advantage on the rest for the whole year are gone (not saying that's a good or a bad thing, just that's where we are).

now, what we have this year is a random factor thrown in, and whilst some may think that's great having so many different winners etc, the reality is it's just a factor of lottery tyres.

No matter what a team do (and let's not forget here we are probably talking collectively about some of the very cleverest brains out there in *any* field) the results are just a lottery.

Now, if you analyse that properly, the only conclusion you can draw is that there is a random factor in the mix that's beyond engineer's being able to predict it.

[rdjohn]

Eric Mc said:

I agree.

The thread has grown tyred.

Or should I say that the tyre has worn out its thread.

So to summarise:-

Shed loads of money and engineering excellence, coupled with drivers capable of sustaining high speeds for much of the race, brings about stability (form), which in turn can make a race somewhat boring for fans who have been around for a while.

The Pirelli tyres bring about randomness to an extent where luck can play an overriding part in who will actually win.

Bernie said a while ago that there is no future for Europe in F1 “it’s a bust flush”, so the furure belongs to the Far East where the IPO will also take place.

I know nothing about spread-betting, but I suspect that you can get some very good odds on the number of overtakes by driver xxxxx during a race (fill in blanks)

So making the results more like a lottery may stay for the long-term. And it will please EriicM

[Eric Mc]

It most definitely will.

But don't worry. It's a temporary situation.

By July we will be wondering what all the fuss was about.

[playalistic]

Eric Mc said:

I agree.

The thread has grown tyred.

Or should I say that the tyre has worn out its thread.

Tread carefully, we're all pretty deflated and don't want to be let down any further.

[Eric Mc]

That was a slick reposte.

[zac510]

I can't believe you even bothered to watch it! A man such as yourself so sure of his convictions needn't waste his time on such things.

[Eric Mc]

I "watched" it on radio. It was far more exciting than on TV.

[rdjohn]

Bedazzled said:

Well I enjoyed quali, Q3 was ace.

Q3 was the race, the guys are so good at hooking things up for qually.

Even the threat of rain did not make the actual race remotely exciting. Watching on radio was probably a smart move.

[RYH64E]

Alonso speaks sense, imo:

"It's a fantastic season, it's so unpredictable. I think people stand in front of the TV, with some surprises every race. It's good for the audience, it's good for the sport to bring attention to the races," the Ferrari driver told CNN.

"On the other hand we can lose credibility. We cannot lose that the best teams, the best drivers, the best strategies win the races, because at the moment from the outside it seems that in every race anyone can win.

"It doesn't matter the talent, it doesn't matter the team, the performance - it's like a lottery. What you achieve in Formula One is not by chance. We need to make clear that if you win a race, it's because you did something better. And I don't think at the moment that this is clear for everybody."

[Eric Mc]

He's right about the excitement.

However, the only unexpected winner so far was Maldonado. The rest were all capable race winners. Even Rosberg has been consistent this year.

If an HRT or Caterham manages to win a race, then his point will be valid.

[Scuffers]

Eric Mc said:

He's right about the excitement.

However, the only unexpected winner so far was Maldonado. The rest were all capable race winners. Even Rosberg has been consistent this year.

If an HRT or Caterham manages to win a race, then his point will be valid.

so,let me get this right, two world champions who actually race on these say they are random, but you know better?

[Eric Mc]

Just because someone is a world champion doesn't make it compulsory to agree with everything they say.

When James Hunt was a commentator it certainly did not seem that it was compulsory to have to agree with all his comments.

Did you?

[Scuffers]

Eric Mc said:

Just because someone is a world champion doesn't make it compulsory to agree with everything they say.

When James Hunt was a commentator it certainly did not seem that it was compulsory to have to agree with all his comments.

Did you?

it's one thing to comment from the sidelines, it's another to actually be in the cars.

[Eric Mc]

So there are different categories of World Champions then for the case of your argument?

What if two current but active ex World Champions disagree on something (which is not unusual). Which one are you obliged to side with?

[Scuffers]

Eric Mc said:

So there are different categories of World Champions then for the case of your argument?

What if two current but active ex World Champions disagree on something (which is not unusual). Which one are you obliged to side with?

if it's about something the one with the microphone has zero experience of (the tyres for example), then that's pretty obvious.

[Eric Mc]

But what if both do.

And what about other F1 related topics besides tyres?

Your argument is that everyone has to believe the words of an active driving World Champion.

If not every active World Champion agrees on a particular topic then your argument comes apart. They can't all be right.

In many ways, I prefer the words of RETIRED drivers because they are generally free of the restraints of being "on message". Note how many racing drivers are followed around by team lackies holding little recorders to make a record of every utterance so that they can get a bking from the team principle if they speak out of turn. I don't always take what I hear from a current driver too seriously for that very reason. They aren't always free agents or able to speak their minds properly.

[RYH64E]

Eric Mc said:

So there are different categories of World Champions then for the case of your argument?

What if two current but active ex World Champions disagree on something (which is not unusual). Which one are you obliged to side with?

There are more than 2 ex-world champions complaining about the tyres, Schumacher was the first to speak out and this is what Button had to say before Monaco:

'The fans love the fact it is exciting but I think it will get to a point where they will wonder who they are supporting and why someone is winning and someone is losing,' said Button.

'Why is everyone a loser and everyone a winner? Look at Pastor Maldonado (of Williams who won last time out in Spain), he qualified 17th in Bahrain and qualified second in the next race in Barcelona.

'He was consistently qualifying down the order and then suddenly he was second.
'There are some things we can do to help it which we have done already. But also you start doing stuff that is unusual in the engineering world. When you engineer the car and you change something it should do something in that direction, but it doesn't. So you try the opposite and sometimes in works.

'It is very strange and it is all because you cannot get the tyres in the right working range. Hopefully it will get to a point where we all understand what is going on.'