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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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He's right about the excitement.
However, the only unexpected winner so far was Maldonado. The rest were all capable race winners. Even Rosberg has been consistent this year.
If an HRT or Caterham manages to win a race, then his point will be valid.
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Scuffers
10,385 posts
143 months
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Eric Mc said: He's right about the excitement.
However, the only unexpected winner so far was Maldonado. The rest were all capable race winners. Even Rosberg has been consistent this year.
If an HRT or Caterham manages to win a race, then his point will be valid. so,let me get this right, two world champions who actually race on these say they are random, but you know better?
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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Just because someone is a world champion doesn't make it compulsory to agree with everything they say.
When James Hunt was a commentator it certainly did not seem that it was compulsory to have to agree with all his comments.
Did you?
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Scuffers
10,385 posts
143 months
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Eric Mc said: Just because someone is a world champion doesn't make it compulsory to agree with everything they say.
When James Hunt was a commentator it certainly did not seem that it was compulsory to have to agree with all his comments.
Did you? it's one thing to comment from the sidelines, it's another to actually be in the cars.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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So there are different categories of World Champions then for the case of your argument?
What if two current but active ex World Champions disagree on something (which is not unusual). Which one are you obliged to side with?
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Scuffers
10,385 posts
143 months
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Eric Mc said: So there are different categories of World Champions then for the case of your argument?
What if two current but active ex World Champions disagree on something (which is not unusual). Which one are you obliged to side with? if it's about something the one with the microphone has zero experience of (the tyres for example), then that's pretty obvious.
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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But what if both do. And what about other F1 related topics besides tyres? Your argument is that everyone has to believe the words of an active driving World Champion. If not every active World Champion agrees on a particular topic then your argument comes apart. They can't all be right. In many ways, I prefer the words of RETIRED drivers because they are generally free of the restraints of being "on message". Note how many racing drivers are followed around by team lackies holding little recorders to make a record of every utterance so that they can get a b  king from the team principle if they speak out of turn. I don't always take what I hear from a current driver too seriously for that very reason. They aren't always free agents or able to speak their minds properly.
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RYH64E
3,059 posts
113 months
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Eric Mc said: So there are different categories of World Champions then for the case of your argument?
What if two current but active ex World Champions disagree on something (which is not unusual). Which one are you obliged to side with? There are more than 2 ex-world champions complaining about the tyres, Schumacher was the first to speak out and this is what Button had to say before Monaco: 'The fans love the fact it is exciting but I think it will get to a point where they will wonder who they are supporting and why someone is winning and someone is losing,' said Button. 'Why is everyone a loser and everyone a winner? Look at Pastor Maldonado (of Williams who won last time out in Spain), he qualified 17th in Bahrain and qualified second in the next race in Barcelona. 'He was consistently qualifying down the order and then suddenly he was second. 'There are some things we can do to help it which we have done already. But also you start doing stuff that is unusual in the engineering world. When you engineer the car and you change something it should do something in that direction, but it doesn't. So you try the opposite and sometimes in works. 'It is very strange and it is all because you cannot get the tyres in the right working range. Hopefully it will get to a point where we all understand what is going on.'
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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The last comment is the important one. They will get a handle on it. They are very clever chaps in F1.
I like Button in that he is one of the most honest of the current bunch and will explain his opinion rather than just whinge.
I am prety sure that, as the season progresses, an understanding of the tyre behaviour will emerge and the racing will become much more predictable - which seems to be what everybody wants. God knows why.
Hopefully, the rules next year will throw another spanner in the works and we'll get at least half an interesting season in 2013.
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Bedazzled
4,040 posts
90 months
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Schuey, Alonso and Button have 10 world championships between them, these guys know what they are talking about. Mark Webber has also been critical of the tyres, and also the new generation of Tilke tracks, saying that 1 lap around Mugello was more satisfying than 1000 laps around Abu Dhabi.
The commercial pressure for them to 'stay on message' actually makes what they have said even more significant.
Have any ex WDC's come out in support of the current tyres...?
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stephen300o
12,617 posts
97 months
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Eric Mc said: I like Button in that he is one of the most honest of the current bunch and will explain his opinion rather than just whinge. He does this later, first he just winges. 
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RYH64E
3,059 posts
113 months
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Eric Mc said: I am prety sure that, as the season progresses, an understanding of the tyre behaviour will emerge and the racing will become much more predictable - which seems to be what everybody wants. God knows why. I have two complaints about this year's tyres. 1) They make the racing too unpredictable, it's meant to be a sport not just entertainment. 2) Tyre management in 2012 appears to mean driving slowly and leaving a gap to the car in front, who wants to see that?
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Scuffers
10,385 posts
143 months
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Eric Mc said: Your argument is that everyone has to believe the words of an active driving World Champion. not really, look and ye shall find.... Before Red Bull's Australian Mark Webber won from pole position in Monaco on Sunday, retired triple champion Niki Lauda was expressing the view that the championship might be becoming too random. "It was very interesting in the beginning, we all were surprised," the Austrian, who chased the title in 1983 when the first five races had five different winners, told Reuters of the unpredictable nature of the races. "But if this continues...then we will lose spectators or interest because the main public wants to see the world champions winning. "We need two races with known winners and then the crazy stuff can start again."
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Bedazzled
4,040 posts
90 months
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And another... hereJackie Stewart said: An issue that nobody can quite work out is how the tyre temperatures work, we've seen a lot of winning and losing because of when people have chosen or not chosen to come into the pits. The one thing I'd criticise is the marbles, the race track has got narrower, I don't think that amount of rubber should be coming off the tyres and be left to the side of the track, if you go over that rubber it then sticks to the terribly hot tyres. When you get to the next corner your car is now totally unstable, and when you're going to brake you'll probably lose control of your car. If there's a car close to you then that will cause a multiple-car accident, it has to be improved.
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iiyama
1,607 posts
70 months
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Now I am prepared to disagree with JS on that. Marbles have always existed, although maybe not as early in the race as they are now....
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Eric Mc
67,253 posts
134 months
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Scuffers said: Eric Mc said: Your argument is that everyone has to believe the words of an active driving World Champion. not really, look and ye shall find.... Before Red Bull's Australian Mark Webber won from pole position in Monaco on Sunday, retired triple champion Niki Lauda was expressing the view that the championship might be becoming too random. "It was very interesting in the beginning, we all were surprised," the Austrian, who chased the title in 1983 when the first five races had five different winners, told Reuters of the unpredictable nature of the races. "But if this continues...then we will lose spectators or interest because the main public wants to see the world champions winning. "We need two races with known winners and then the crazy stuff can start again." Lauda doesn't fit your criteria as he is retired.
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rdjohn
Original Poster
866 posts
64 months
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iiyama said: Now I am prepared to disagree with JS on that. Marbles have always existed, although maybe not as early in the race as they are now.... Just come back from the LM test day There are more marbles on track from 24 F1 cars in 90mins - going slow!!! than there are from 50+ in the LM 24 hour race. The huge quantity adds to making it less likely to pass, other than with DRS on a straight, or on a pit stop, or if someone’s tyres have hit the wall. If you are new to F1, then I can understand your enthusiasm, but I cannot understand why some fans refuse to see that they are just not racing for the greater part of the time. They are (relatively) cruising, because they have to, because the tyres will only last 5-7 laps if they actually raced. That is not managing the tyres under race conditions – it is just driving to a delta; skilful, but not racing.
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Redlake27
1,706 posts
113 months
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rdjohn said: Just come back from the LM test day
There are more marbles on track from 24 F1 cars in 90mins - going slow!!! than there are from 50+ in the LM 24 hour race. The huge quantity adds to making it less likely to pass, other than with DRS on a straight, or on a pit stop, or if someone’s tyres have hit the wall. There is intense tyre competition in Endurance racing. In American Le Mans/World Endurance, Dunlop, Michelin, Falken, Yokohama and Pirelli are all represented. It drives excellence in tyre design and the rules encourage double and triple stinting of tyres. However, in fairness to F1, there is a lot of 'driving to a Delta time' in endurance racing too. I posted something from this interview earlier. The old Michelin boss is wonderfully indiscreet when he tells of the day Bernie asked his opinion on Pirelli. http://memoiresdestands.hautetfort.com/archive/201...
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Scuffers
10,385 posts
143 months
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he's not wrong though is he? Pierre Dupasquier said: but they have a significant defect, that they can be corrected today is that they can not do two identical tires. (google translation!)
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rdjohn
Original Poster
866 posts
64 months
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Fernando Alonso not ruling out a Ferrari victory in Canadian Grand Prix http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100240Obviously, it is Fernando’s turn for the good tyres agian this week! Stop playing games with fans. Let’s see some real racing for the finish.
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