Poll: Pirelli tyres
Total Members Polled: 337
Discussion
P-Jay said:
I think tyre/engine/car management is a big part of being the perfect driver or the perfect team, it's about playing the long game - chasing the best full race time and position.........
Completely agree with that. The best driver is the one most able to assess and exploit all facets of the given situation.P-Jay said:
......... letting the team/driver work out whether that be by a 4 stop tyre/engine burning frenzy, or a 3 stop careful race - more than that it's the period between stop races that are really interesting, like yesterday Vettel out in the lead being careful, Kimi behind giving it death to catch him
It is interesting, but it feels too synthetic and overly complicated. Tyres that perform steadily and then aggressively degrade are creating some exciting action, but it's an unnatural stage-managed feature that, for me anyway, diminishes the spectacle.Surely a far simpler format could be devised that still accentuates the car/tyre/fuel management skills of the driver, without the artifice.
I'd go for something like this;
One set of tyres, no stops (except to replace a puncture): These tyres will last a full race distance, but will degrade steadily. Hard running on full tanks will cause the greatest deterioration, it's up to the team and driver how they play it.
Cars fully fuelled at the start, so no fuel stops and a method for the driver to increase engine performance at the direct expense of fuel. So not KERS, something akin to turning up turbo boost, or available revs/power. Teams and drivers have to choose a balance between power and weight (fuel).
In essence, I'd like to see non-stop GPs.
Perhaps I'm being lazy, but as a spectator (one who loves all motorsport), I'd much prefer to watch knowing that the car/driver in the lead really is 'in the lead'. In other words, unless he's overtaken by another car, he'll win. I'm sure there'd be times when someone would romp off into the distance, never to be seen again, but, so what? He's done well. I would far rather watch and assess the relative lap times of the cars in a non-stop GP than spend most of the race speculating on who's two-stopping or three-stopping or whatever. Overtaking would be 'real' overtaking, not just someone nipping by because he's making an extra stop later on.
I've watched F1 avidly since the mid-eighties, I still get butterflies before the lights go out, but the current format is too contrived and too complicated. Even for experienced fans the races can be hard to follow, I'm sure the complexity must prevent many new fans from following F1.
The Hypno-Toad said:
So this would be the same Michael Schumacher who used to spend hours and hours pounding round the Ferrari test track as the prefered Bridgestone team, tailoring their construction and design to the exact set up of his car and the way he wanted to drive?
Which meant all the other Bridgestone teams were then expected to make do and mend even if the design and construction of the tyre didn't suit their car or drivers style. And he is now complaining at about the design of tyres?
"Michael, phone call for you. Its Mister Pot he has some black paint and a bag of old grapes for you,"
Good point, and you wonder how he won so many world championships. They almost gave him the bloody rule book.Which meant all the other Bridgestone teams were then expected to make do and mend even if the design and construction of the tyre didn't suit their car or drivers style. And he is now complaining at about the design of tyres?
"Michael, phone call for you. Its Mister Pot he has some black paint and a bag of old grapes for you,"
SRT77 said:
Mojocvh said:
Well it is if he's looking for a way of saving face........
Not at all. He's just come out and said what most teams and drivers think of the current crap tyre situation.2 or 3 laps on it then into conservation mode . It's a joke.
TheHeretic said:
vonuber said:
MSTRBKR said:
His testicals have been replaced with sour grapes - simple as that.
So wanting to drive at 100% rather than 80% means you have less 'balls'.Righto.
Unless he's saying that his faster is faster than other peoples faster but that he can't drive faster than them due to the tyres fading.
If the slower teams can drive at 100% while the faster teams can only do 80% due to rubber limitations then it's not a good situation.
I don't drive an F1 car this season so cannot comment on if he's telling it how it is or just moaning.
The racing so far would suggest that there is at least something there.
If the slower teams can drive at 100% while the faster teams can only do 80% due to rubber limitations then it's not a good situation.
I don't drive an F1 car this season so cannot comment on if he's telling it how it is or just moaning.
The racing so far would suggest that there is at least something there.
Pirelli tyres always wear out fast on road cars from my own experience, but do grip well when there is still some tread left.
I can see the Shuey point of view, but F1 is a team sport, and it's up to the team to manage the use of the tyres.
From a spectator point of view, it's giving us great entertainment.
Previous years you could watch the start, fall asleep during the race, then wake up at the end with all cars finishing in the same order.
I can see the Shuey point of view, but F1 is a team sport, and it's up to the team to manage the use of the tyres.
From a spectator point of view, it's giving us great entertainment.
Previous years you could watch the start, fall asleep during the race, then wake up at the end with all cars finishing in the same order.
vonuber said:
Problem is that he was probably the master at dividing the race into very fast consistent sprints; which is not F1 2012.
it's not that hard when you have the best tires specially tailored for you..
"It was also interesting to hear Mercedes' Michael Schumacher complain about the Pirelli tyres.
He is a professional racing driver, and it's all about looking after your tyres. You do that by getting the right balance on the car.
When I was involved with Bridgestone tyres with Jordan in the early 2000s, in the middle of the tyre war with Michelin, Schumacher and Ferrari had tyres we were not even allowed to look at.
They cost so much money that Bridgestone could not afford to supply them to everyone. And whenever we did have an opportunity to run a derivative of those tyres, our lap times were much, much better.
It's a bit sad that Michael now sees things the other way around, because a lot of his competitiveness in those days was down to the working relationship he and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, one to which nobody else had access.
Now there's a standard tyre, it's down to him and Mercedes to get it working properly, not point the finger at the supplier."
(taken from : http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17816565 )
The issue in 2012 is not that the tyres degrade/wear and have a limited useful life. The issue is, Pirelli changed the spec of the tyres this season with the result of a temperature operating window that is too narrow. Some days they work, others they don't for one team and different for the next team and every other team. With limited testing (not only milage, but in different environments) the teams are in somewhat of a lottery as to whether the tyres will work for them on a particular day or not.
It makes for an interesting and exiting season, but it must be frustrating for the engineers/designers to have the rug pull from under them by changes of weather/track temp. The behavior of the tyres is inconsistant from one event to the next and the team that wins a weekend, probably is only winning by lucking in to the sweet spot, because if the tyres were predictable, we would see the car with the best packagae at the front every weekend. Ferrari/Sauber definately dont have a better package than McLaren for example, so how were they better in Malaysia? They lucked in to the temp window.
If Pirelli are taking credit for the exiting racing, carry on. The casual F1 watcher will be viewing and probably thinking, these Perilli tyres are s
t. Not buying them.
It makes for an interesting and exiting season, but it must be frustrating for the engineers/designers to have the rug pull from under them by changes of weather/track temp. The behavior of the tyres is inconsistant from one event to the next and the team that wins a weekend, probably is only winning by lucking in to the sweet spot, because if the tyres were predictable, we would see the car with the best packagae at the front every weekend. Ferrari/Sauber definately dont have a better package than McLaren for example, so how were they better in Malaysia? They lucked in to the temp window.
If Pirelli are taking credit for the exiting racing, carry on. The casual F1 watcher will be viewing and probably thinking, these Perilli tyres are s
t. Not buying them.Dick Seaman said:
It is interesting, but it feels too synthetic and overly complicated. Tyres that perform steadily and then aggressively degrade are creating some exciting action, but it's an unnatural stage-managed feature that, for me anyway, diminishes the spectacle.
Surely a far simpler format could be devised that still accentuates the car/tyre/fuel management skills of the driver, without the artifice.
I'd go for something like this;
One set of tyres, no stops (except to replace a puncture): These tyres will last a full race distance, but will degrade steadily. Hard running on full tanks will cause the greatest deterioration, it's up to the team and driver how they play it.
Cars fully fuelled at the start, so no fuel stops and a method for the driver to increase engine performance at the direct expense of fuel. So not KERS, something akin to turning up turbo boost, or available revs/power. Teams and drivers have to choose a balance between power and weight (fuel).
In essence, I'd like to see non-stop GPs.
Perhaps I'm being lazy, but as a spectator (one who loves all motorsport), I'd much prefer to watch knowing that the car/driver in the lead really is 'in the lead'. In other words, unless he's overtaken by another car, he'll win. I'm sure there'd be times when someone would romp off into the distance, never to be seen again, but, so what? He's done well. I would far rather watch and assess the relative lap times of the cars in a non-stop GP than spend most of the race speculating on who's two-stopping or three-stopping or whatever. Overtaking would be 'real' overtaking, not just someone nipping by because he's making an extra stop later on.
I've watched F1 avidly since the mid-eighties, I still get butterflies before the lights go out, but the current format is too contrived and too complicated. Even for experienced fans the races can be hard to follow, I'm sure the complexity must prevent many new fans from following F1.
Careful what you wish for, it might happen...Surely a far simpler format could be devised that still accentuates the car/tyre/fuel management skills of the driver, without the artifice.
I'd go for something like this;
One set of tyres, no stops (except to replace a puncture): These tyres will last a full race distance, but will degrade steadily. Hard running on full tanks will cause the greatest deterioration, it's up to the team and driver how they play it.
Cars fully fuelled at the start, so no fuel stops and a method for the driver to increase engine performance at the direct expense of fuel. So not KERS, something akin to turning up turbo boost, or available revs/power. Teams and drivers have to choose a balance between power and weight (fuel).
In essence, I'd like to see non-stop GPs.
Perhaps I'm being lazy, but as a spectator (one who loves all motorsport), I'd much prefer to watch knowing that the car/driver in the lead really is 'in the lead'. In other words, unless he's overtaken by another car, he'll win. I'm sure there'd be times when someone would romp off into the distance, never to be seen again, but, so what? He's done well. I would far rather watch and assess the relative lap times of the cars in a non-stop GP than spend most of the race speculating on who's two-stopping or three-stopping or whatever. Overtaking would be 'real' overtaking, not just someone nipping by because he's making an extra stop later on.
I've watched F1 avidly since the mid-eighties, I still get butterflies before the lights go out, but the current format is too contrived and too complicated. Even for experienced fans the races can be hard to follow, I'm sure the complexity must prevent many new fans from following F1.
During the refuelling era the tyres were so durable the only overtaking we saw was through fuel stratergy.
During the first non refuelling era the overatking we saw was because the cars were a long way from perfect and trying to keep them working with the driver for a whole race was impossible and as balance changed during the race so did the relative pace of the cars and we got over taking.
During this non refuelling era we have got overtaking because the tyres have been designed not to last to spice up the stratergy, because the rules are now so restrictive that the cars are all within a tiny percentage of each other over 1 lap.
So, what you proposing is to remove the 2 things, tyres and refuelling, that have given us the other taking in the last 20 years?
We could tear the rule book up to try and drive differences between the cars, and make then run non stop with durable tyresbut there is a big problem with that. Money, nobody can afford F1 with no rule book. And it would only be a few years before somebody found the fastest formula, they would all then copy it, and we back to where we are now, only with a simply vast sum of money having been wasted.
Formula 1 is show business, it is there to entertain, it used to be the technical pinicle of all things automotive, but your average family hatchback is more sophisticated these days, the best way of doing that and giving it as long a life as possible is to do it using as little cash as possible, so the current tyres seem the perfect way of doing that to me.
stevesingo said:
If Pirelli are taking credit for the exiting racing, carry on. The casual F1 watcher will be viewing and probably thinking, these Perilli tyres are st. Not buying them.
Not when you are reminded every 5 laps about "what a fantastic job Pirelli are doing giving us tyres like this" but the commentators.t. Not buying them.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff