Pirelli tyres

[Eric Mc]

And that sums up the two opposing views on this thread

[Richard-G]

entropy said:

Agree on all apart from the conclusion.

It is the tyres. Whatever flaws the cars have they've been grossly exaggerated by the tyres.

Isn't that a good thing though? If a car has flaws then it should be highlighted. We don't want the same names on the podium all the time. I've not yet seen a decent drive go Unrewarded this season?

[RYH64E]

Richard-G said:

Isn't that a good thing though? If a car has flaws then it should be highlighted. We don't want the same names on the podium all the time. I've not yet seen a decent drive go Unrewarded this season?

But why is a particular car/driver good on one track/temperature/tyre combination and completely off the pace on another?

This year Vettel has finished 2, 11, 5, 1, and 6, the first five races of last year he finished 1, 1, 2, 1 and 1. It's pretty much the same for all of the drivers this year, they win one race and really struggle in the next. If the car is flawed then it should be slow on most circuits, and if the car is flawless then it should be fast on most circuits, the level of variation that we are seeing this year isn't natural, and I don't like the artificial element that has been introduced. It's the same as adding success ballast and using reverse grids to mix things up, it doesn't adequately reward excellence on the part of either the designer or the driver.

[zac510]

You are placing too much value on an individual race win. The most excellent team, designer, driver and engineers will be rewarded with the World Championship.

[Eric Mc]

Still one of my favourite movies though

[Redlake27]

http://memoiresdestands.hautetfort.com/archive/201...

I've just read this fascinating interview from the former Michelin boss. It is fabulously gossipy, so should perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt, as he
criticises all the other tyre companies. But this bit made me smile (translated by Google)

In hindsight, you can tell us if you happened to favor one team or driver?

Pierre Dupasquier - No never, not at all mind Michelin and I think this rigor has enabled us to be closer to the teams, so to understand progress. If we made ​​the mistake once it is scaled to other manufacturers who themselves have not always complied with this rule.

MoH - This is to say?
Pierre Dupasquier - Goodyear put on pole one he wanted, the local instance, in agreement with Ecclestone to bring 20,000 more viewers. Leo Mehl was a marketing man, he was not an engineer, Ecclestone is about a man who wants vive la Formula 1, it is attractive, it interests the public, in the course of a event there is dramatic elements that make you want to go or turn on the television. In a sport quite confidential, he made ​​a world-class sports with considerable hours of antennas, where money flows freely.

We joined recently by phone when he decided to put the Pirelli in F1, he wanted to know my feelings. I told him: "you know, they are lovely, engineers wops are extraordinary, they have genius, and also of fantasy, they are much more pleasant to be with the French but they have a significant defect, that they can be corrected today is that they can not do two identical tires. It is not seen too much tourism in F1 but it's embarrassing. " He said: "I know is what I like, I said to Pirelli, give me the same st that you did me when we were together at Brabham, we take the start of the race and you never know what will happen. "

[rdjohn]

Pirelli ready to supply Q3-only tyres. Well Hembery is thinking on the right lines, perhaps decent race tyres will follow soon:-

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99766

Clearly, negativity towards the tyres are getting to Pirelli.

Death where is thy sting

[Scuffers]

humm... the start of some serious back-peddling?

I love the way everybody seems to be blaming the lack of blown diffusers for the tyres falling apart, which would be funny except that before we had blown diffusers, tyres seem to last just fine.

[Megaflow]

rdjohn said:

Pirelli ready to supply Q3-only tyres. Well Hembery is thinking on the right lines, perhaps decent race tyres will follow soon:-

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99766

Clearly, negativity towards the tyres are getting to Pirelli.

Death where is thy sting

Qualifying tyres are nothing to do with the race tyres. Pirelli want to introduce qualifying tyres for Q3 only so there is no advantage to not running as all tyres have to be handed back after Q3.

[Richard-G]

Scuffers said:

humm... the start of some serious back-peddling?

I love the way everybody seems to be blaming the lack of blown diffusers for the tyres falling apart, which would be funny except that before we had blown diffusers, tyres seem to last just fine.

From a man with your engineering knowledge im surprised by your second paragraph. How can 15/20% less rear biased grip under accel not have an effect on tyre deg?

[Scuffers]

Richard-G said:

Scuffers said:

humm... the start of some serious back-peddling?

I love the way everybody seems to be blaming the lack of blown diffusers for the tyres falling apart, which would be funny except that before we had blown diffusers, tyres seem to last just fine.

From a man with your engineering knowledge im surprised by your second paragraph. How can 15/20% less rear biased grip under accel not have an effect on tyre deg?

it would be if they actually achieved a 15-20% gain in rear grip from them in the first place.

[heebeegeetee]

Richard-G said:

We don't want the same names on the podium all the time.

Why on earth not? Why would you want anything other than the best being rewarded? Do you want sport or entertainment? If you want entertainment then perhaps sport isn't for you or for everyone?

There is plenty of entertainment out there, on TV, movies and computer games etc. Why do we want our sport meddling with just to please lightweight spectators?
-
Here's another thought for people though: What great memories are we going to take from this era? Where are we going to get our great overtakes from, if all the overtaking we're seeing is down to kers or the overtaken being on shagged tyres?

Where are we going to get our thrilling duels from? Where are we going to get our 'deep breath' or 'big balls' overtakes from? We've watched some so-called battles this year, but they all seem to have involved at least one driver being on shagged tyres. I want to see Hamilton and Vettel and Rosberg and Button fight gloves off, not with one hand behind their backs.

I realise that the rules are the same for all and I realise that at the end of the year we'll have a winner and it will be the best team that won, but while I'm finding the racing interesting, watching one driver on good tyres and the help of kers pass a driver on shagged tyres is not going to keep me on the edge of my seat.

This will be an interesting season far more than it will be exciting, methinks, and I don't think we'll be talking about great battles at year end.

We might still be talking about tyres though.

[Richard-G]

Scuffers said:

t would be if they actually achieved a 15-20% gain in rear grip from them in the first place.

Under acceleration, it wasn't far off. In any case, ANY extra rear df under acceleration or during mid corner is a bonus and will help lower tyre deg. It's not rocket science.

The blown df's aren't the cause of the tyre wear/switch on anyway, they are a percentage of it and it's indicative that the two teams that are up and down on performance happen to be the two teams that ran the most rake and most developed blown df's. Those are the facts, you can argue them all you want.

[Scuffers]

Richard-G said:

Scuffers said:

t would be if they actually achieved a 15-20% gain in rear grip from them in the first place.

Under acceleration, it wasn't far off. In any case, ANY extra rear df under acceleration or during mid corner is a bonus and will help lower tyre deg. It's not rocket science.

The blown df's aren't the cause of the tyre wear/switch on anyway, they are a percentage of it and it's indicative that the two teams that are up and down on performance happen to be the two teams that ran the most rake and most developed blown df's. Those are the facts, you can argue them all you want.

don't disagree with the principal, but your placing way too much emphasis on one thing.

As for 15-20% for blown diffusers, that's way wide of the mark, yes they added a significant bit, but nothing like that much.

[Ahonen]

rdjohn said:

Pirelli ready to supply Q3-only tyres. Well Hembery is thinking on the right lines, perhaps decent race tyres will follow soon:-

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99766

Clearly, negativity towards the tyres are getting to Pirelli.

Death where is thy sting

Did you ever answer when I asked which tyre company you work for?

[RYH64E]

Richard-G said:

Under acceleration, it wasn't far off. In any case, ANY extra rear df under acceleration or during mid corner is a bonus and will help lower tyre deg. It's not rocket science.

The blown df's aren't the cause of the tyre wear/switch on anyway, they are a percentage of it and it's indicative that the two teams that are up and down on performance happen to be the two teams that ran the most rake and most developed blown df's. Those are the facts, you can argue them all you want.

Are you saying that only two teams are up and down on performance? If you look at both qualifying and finishing position it would appear that all of the top and mid pack teams are very good on certain tracks and completely useless on others, that's certainly the case for Mclaren, Red Bull, Ferrari, Sauber, Mercedes and Williams.

As far as I am aware the blown diffuser saga was a 1 or 2 season phenomenom only, and for many teams it only became a major performance factor part way through last season. Tyres worked perfectly ok before and during that particular phase.

[Eric Mc]

Blown diffusers had been around for ages. I remember reading about them during the 1993 season. They were supposed to have been banned but Red Bull and Brawn found ways of re-introducing the effect within the rules as they were four or five years ago.

[rdjohn]

Ahonen said:

Did you ever answer when I asked which tyre company you work for?

Just for absolute clarity, I don't and never have.

Like others writing here, I just see great falseness in what we are witnessing.

As Heebeegeebee says - it may be entertaining, but it is not sport. That is why I will enjoy myself elsewhere this weekend on some very durably Yokahama 048s.

[Richard-G]

Your all missing my point about the blown diffusers! The first year of the pirellis ( all of the 1st year data) was gained while the cars had a blown diffuser. The cars without it are now VERY different to drive. with minor changes to the compounds it's meant they don't know exactly where they're at.

Whereas the cars with poor or less developed blown diffusers are now competitive (lotus, Williams, merc, sauber)

[RYH64E]

Richard-G said:

Your all missing my point about the blown diffusers! The first year of the pirellis ( all of the 1st year data) was gained while the cars had a blown diffuser. The cars without it are now VERY different to drive. with minor changes to the compounds it's meant they don't know exactly where they're at.

Whereas the cars with poor or less developed blown diffusers are now competitive (lotus, Williams, merc, sauber)

I think that it is you that is missing the point. It isn't that one particular car is competitive or not competitive, it is that the performance of individual cars varies hugely from one weekend to the next as the temperature/track surface/humidity/moon phase etc varies. If Red Bull was not competitive then fair enough, but they've won one race so far this season, as have Williams, Ferrari, Mercedes & McLaren.