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_Batty_

12,179 posts

133 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd April 2012 quote quote all
GreigM said:
To be fair, Spa is bks for spectators as well - complete lack of suitable viewing areas for the numbers let through the gate, woeful facilities once they are through the gate....maybe Bernie is taking the spectator experience into account.
Erm, really?
I had grandstand seats when i went a few years ago, but spent alot of time around the circuit with the general admittance crowd.
There was plenty of decent places to watch, and is infact better than alot of british GP circuits.

Allyc85

4,744 posts

69 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd April 2012 quote quote all
GreigM said:
To be fair, Spa is bks for spectators as well - complete lack of suitable viewing areas for the numbers let through the gate, woeful facilities once they are through the gate....maybe Bernie is taking the spectator experience into account.
Bull st!!

Even as a peasent in General admission there are some great viewing points where you can see the cars for ages and through some of the best corners in the world!

When I went in 2010 we watched from the back straight to Les Combes, which also gave us viewing of a big screen and the run up to the last chicane! Have you actually been to Spa?

Gun

13,251 posts

101 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd April 2012 quote quote all
Bad decision to make Spa an every other year race, there are far more that could take it's place, Valencia being the prime candidate.

GreigM

4,555 posts

132 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd April 2012 quote quote all
_Batty_ said:
Erm, really?
I had grandstand seats when i went a few years ago, but spent alot of time around the circuit with the general admittance crowd.
There was plenty of decent places to watch, and is infact better than alot of british GP circuits.
Did you stay in the general admission areas for the race? It was 20 deep at anywhere that had a remotely reasonable view (sure you could get next to the track near blanchimont, in-between the trees, where the cars passed so quickly you could barely make out their colour), there were no reasonable toilet facilities which lead (literally) to rivers of piss running down the hill between pouhon and stavelot, which was bad for men but my wife found the experience horrific. There was a thread on this about 6 months ago and I certainly wasn't the only one who had this experience.

the other me

378 posts

36 months

[news] 
Monday 23rd April 2012 quote quote all
Having attended every GP at Spa since 93, I was really crossing my fingers this would not come to pass. Drat & double Drat (actually, that is nothing like I said)

Like its predecessor in Magny Where (?) used to in the past, this place will make the traffic problems we "enjoyed" in Silverstone in the early 90's seem like Fastrack in your favorite airport by comparison.
Looking at Google Maps it seems that the Frank Williams "experience" will still be de rigueur for anyone contemplating a trip there.

Temporary grandstands/portaloos are one thing, but , the forthcoming Socialist President in France is unlikely to build Bernie a new Autoroute from Marseille, and, even though he could afford it, I doubt the Bernster will cough up for that either.

For those that can afford Helicopter transfers, enjoy Le Grand Prix de France 2013, for the rest of us ? perhaps better to go elsewhere.

Edited by the other me on Monday 23 April 20:05

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DJRC

21,599 posts

119 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Have to laugh. Paul Ricard is part of Grand Prix history.

Eric Mc

75,757 posts

148 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Just a not terribly memorable part of Grand Prix history.

Sway

3,411 posts

77 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
DJRC said:
Have to laugh. Paul Ricard is part of Grand Prix history.
So is racing each way down a dual carriageway, with a 180 at each end....

Doesn't mean it would be good to go back.

Wonderboy46

36 posts

27 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
It makes sense for the "business" side of F1 to have a race in France now that there are more French drivers and it probably makes business sense for Spa to host alternate years, as they are one of the circuits that is unhappy with Bernie's demands these days.

Completely agree that Spa will be a massive loss though. I'd much rather lose any of the Tilke tracks and I'd also much rather have Spa than potentially TWO races in the USA next year.

DJRC

21,599 posts

119 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Sway said:
DJRC said:
Have to laugh. Paul Ricard is part of Grand Prix history.
So is racing each way down a dual carriageway, with a 180 at each end....

Doesn't mean it would be good to go back.
But that is exactly what most of the whinging has been about. The move away from the old to the new. An old circuit come back and people are moaning.

The daft thing is not only is an old historic track coming back but the very mechanism bringing it back will be the mechanism that saves Spa as a GP circuit! And people are *still* whinging.


Eric Mc

75,757 posts

148 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
It's not just "old" versus "new". It's quality versus mediocrity.

Spa, in whatever guise it was used, has always been looked on as a true classic circuit - a real test. Paul Ricard, even in its original longer and better layout was looked on as a bit of a soulless circuit. Of course, compared to somewhere like Valencia or Bahrain, it is perhaps not so soulless as once thought, but to lose Spa in order to gain Paul Ricard is, to me, just another "loss" for F1.

DJRC

21,599 posts

119 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
It's not just "old" versus "new". It's quality versus mediocrity.

Spa, in whatever guise it was used, has always been looked on as a true classic circuit - a real test. Paul Ricard, even in its original longer and better layout was looked on as a bit of a soulless circuit. Of course, compared to somewhere like Valencia or Bahrain, it is perhaps not so soulless as once thought, but to lose Spa in order to gain Paul Ricard is, to me, just another "loss" for F1.
You havent "lost" Spa, you have in fact bloody gained Spa!! Spa wouldnt frigging exist on the GP calender if it hadnt struck a deal. Under this deal, F1 gains two "historic" tracks onto the calander one of which brings GP racing back into one the heartland countries of the sport.

This deal will also keep La Reggie's involvement in the sport, for without it they would be gone in 2 yrs.

Eric Mc

75,757 posts

148 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
DJRC said:
Eric Mc said:
It's not just "old" versus "new". It's quality versus mediocrity.

Spa, in whatever guise it was used, has always been looked on as a true classic circuit - a real test. Paul Ricard, even in its original longer and better layout was looked on as a bit of a soulless circuit. Of course, compared to somewhere like Valencia or Bahrain, it is perhaps not so soulless as once thought, but to lose Spa in order to gain Paul Ricard is, to me, just another "loss" for F1.
You havent "lost" Spa, you have in fact bloody gained Spa!! Spa wouldnt frigging exist on the GP calender if it hadnt struck a deal. Under this deal, F1 gains two "historic" tracks onto the calander one of which brings GP racing back into one the heartland countries of the sport.

This deal will also keep La Reggie's involvement in the sport, for without it they would be gone in 2 yrs.
DJRC can never refain from swearing. I wonder why.

Look, are you saying that it is better to be kicked in the head only, rather than being kicked in the head AND the goolies.

Perhaps you would like it more if we had Spa every 4 years but got the race to rotate with Imola, Paul Rioard and Estoril for the other three years,

thiscocks

1,212 posts

78 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Really hope they use the full Mistral straight

Derek Smith

19,785 posts

131 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
It would appear that the rumours of Ecclestone pushing for more GPs might be true.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

The new concord agreement will probably eliminate the requirement for at least half the GPs to be in Europe/USA. It will also substantially increase the cost of competing for other teams. It seems probable, therefore, that universal agreement of the teams will no longer be required. There will be no right of veto.

Ecclestone has supported the Bahranian royal family and there is the suspicion that part of the repayment might be to support his view of the concord agreement. With Ferrari and RB with seats on the board and McLaren already giving in, perhaps, to pressure from their owners, we will probably lose GPs from Europe in the years to come.


djstevec

2,454 posts

57 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
DJRC can never refain from swearing. I wonder why.

Look, are you saying that it is better to be kicked in the head only, rather than being kicked in the head AND the goolies.

Perhaps you would like it more if we had Spa every 4 years but got the race to rotate with Imola, Paul Rioard and Estoril for the other three years,
Dont get you Eric. Spa has lost money for years. The local government was propping up the shortfall which in these austerity lead times, they can no longer do. The promoter couldn't guarantee Bernie's $20m or so for the race, so other solutions were sought. This deal was first mooted back in June(?) of last year to save the race, and if it means there is a Spa GP even every 2 years, its better than zero.

All in all it boils down to BE to reduce race fees, but as others have stated the holding company has substantial debts themselves, teams want more money from the pot, etc etc so money talks.


More worryingly for you conspiracy theorists, on the Paul Ricard track website under "test days",

"Thanks to an ultra-refined watering system, teams can also practice with wet driving conditions."

What was Uncle Bernie saying last year about "making it rain" unexpectedly??

Eric Mc

75,757 posts

148 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Ask yourself why Spa loses money.

djstevec

2,454 posts

57 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
Ask yourself why Spa loses money.
Expenditure higher than income?

Eric Mc

75,757 posts

148 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
djstevec said:
Eric Mc said:
Ask yourself why Spa loses money.
Expenditure higher than income?
What particular expenditure?

djstevec

2,454 posts

57 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th April 2012 quote quote all
Eric Mc said:
What particular expenditure?
Erm....all of it.
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