Pastor: not a w**ker says Frank!
Discussion
Maldonado and Williams would have got points at Monaco last year if Hamilton hadn't barged into him and I like Hamilton. Nevermind Lewis going to Williams this weekend and congratulating him I hope he spoke to Maldonado and Williams after that failed punt.
If Maldonado had had the Traction Control solutions that Schumacher had for most of his F1 career he'd have scored points at Melbourne.
If Maldonado had had the Traction Control solutions that Schumacher had for most of his F1 career he'd have scored points at Melbourne.
carinaman said:
Maldonado and Williams would have got points at Monaco last year if Hamilton hadn't barged into him and I like Hamilton. Nevermind Lewis going to Williams this weekend and congratulating him I hope he spoke to Maldonado and Williams after that failed punt.
If Maldonado had had the Traction Control solutions that Schumacher had for most of his F1 career he'd have scored points at Melbourne.
The infamous Schumacher 'cheats' that everyone knew he had yet nothing was done about!If Maldonado had had the Traction Control solutions that Schumacher had for most of his F1 career he'd have scored points at Melbourne.
fatboy69 said:
carinaman said:
Maldonado and Williams would have got points at Monaco last year if Hamilton hadn't barged into him and I like Hamilton. Nevermind Lewis going to Williams this weekend and congratulating him I hope he spoke to Maldonado and Williams after that failed punt.
If Maldonado had had the Traction Control solutions that Schumacher had for most of his F1 career he'd have scored points at Melbourne.
The infamous Schumacher 'cheats' that everyone knew he had yet nothing was done about!If Maldonado had had the Traction Control solutions that Schumacher had for most of his F1 career he'd have scored points at Melbourne.
carinaman said:
Maldonado and Williams would have got points at Monaco last year if Hamilton hadn't barged into him and I like Hamilton. Nevermind Lewis going to Williams this weekend and congratulating him I hope he spoke to Maldonado and Williams after that failed punt.
If Maldonado had had the Traction Control solutions that Schumacher had for most of his F1 career he'd have scored points at Melbourne.
I think you'll find that "thug" has already "lost" the corner and thought he could push LH off the track. Thankfully he couldn't. It did look initially as though LH had made a mistake until the video was re-examined and Martin Brundle amongst others apportioned the blame to "thug".If Maldonado had had the Traction Control solutions that Schumacher had for most of his F1 career he'd have scored points at Melbourne.
doogz said:
This thread is hilarious. The guy outqualified his team mate by a mile, was second fastest in qualifying, drove an absolutely cracking race, but it was all just luck?
This does seem the case. Amazing how much luck one guy can have though, I think they should stick him in the second Ferrari for a weekend if he's really that lucky 
DanDC5 said:
So Maldonado races hard and is branded a thug, Hamilton races hard and is branded a saviour? Interesting....
Not referring to his "racing". Check out his record. You do not deliberately push another driver off track, or ignore flags and add to an accident and injure a Marshall seriously, or take a swing at a Marshall. He has a record of doing things like that at races. It blights even the best of them and seems to be fairly common in South American drivers.doogz said:
Wasn't there a German, just a couple of races ago pushing drivers off the track? And wasn't there an incident with a German last season, or the season before, on the pit straight, pushing a South American off the track? And didn't that same German drive straight into the back of a different South American driver at the weekend there, then call him an idiot and blame him for it?
And, didn't a different German again, receive a drive through penalty at the weekend for ignoring a flag?
But those South Americans, shocking eh?
There was also a British driver last year who kept crashing into a South American, and then had an attitude problem about it despite it being his fault And, didn't a different German again, receive a drive through penalty at the weekend for ignoring a flag?
But those South Americans, shocking eh?
doogz said:
This thread is hilarious. The guy outqualified his team mate by a mile, was second fastest in qualifying, drove an absolutely cracking race, but it was all just luck?
True. But like Brian, he's not the Messiah, just a very naughty boy...Jury is still out for me, one swallow a summer does not make etc. Let's see how he gets on (and I hope he'll do fine).
It is too early to say if Pastor is a new Vettel or Hamilton...but
In his first year of F1 he was often faster - and outraced - his team-mate, who was a championship contender and race winner as recently as in 2009. He made a lot of mistakes, but his drive at Monaco was wonderful. One of the few occasions that anyone but Alonso truly outperformed the level of their car last year. And this year, he is faster - and outracing - his teammate - who was about as good as Heidfeld or Petrov last year.
This doesn't make Pastor a star yet....but from the above we do know he is potentially better than someone that could occasionally beat Button in equal cars, and is better than some of our solid midfielders of recent years.
I'm impressed by him. And just 20-odd races into an F1 career he can only get better. I'd like to see a top-level driver alongside him, but even if Kimi had got the Williams drive (as rumoured last year) I wonder if he'd have done a better job on Sunday?
In his first year of F1 he was often faster - and outraced - his team-mate, who was a championship contender and race winner as recently as in 2009. He made a lot of mistakes, but his drive at Monaco was wonderful. One of the few occasions that anyone but Alonso truly outperformed the level of their car last year. And this year, he is faster - and outracing - his teammate - who was about as good as Heidfeld or Petrov last year.
This doesn't make Pastor a star yet....but from the above we do know he is potentially better than someone that could occasionally beat Button in equal cars, and is better than some of our solid midfielders of recent years.
I'm impressed by him. And just 20-odd races into an F1 career he can only get better. I'd like to see a top-level driver alongside him, but even if Kimi had got the Williams drive (as rumoured last year) I wonder if he'd have done a better job on Sunday?
doogz said:
I'm not suggesting he's going to win the world championship this year, and become the next Senna, but you can't really take anything away from him. On the day, he's the guy that finished in the fastest time.
No I agree, he did a good race and any other opinion must be subjective, the facts speak for themselves. What I'm saying is that he's committed what I think are errors in the past and in my mind still remains somewhat questionable despite winning one race - I need to see more evidence before I could say whether he's a good driver or not, there are lots of factors at play on any particular race day - LHs place drop, SCH having an off, JB not coming together at all, RB strange strategy, a Mclaren wheelnut/tyre problem etc etc., so although he can be seen as 'the best man on the day', it might not have been a particularly level playing field that particular day. Bang in another few wins with equally good driving and I'll be sure to have an improved opinion on him. I remain to be convinced is all.
One thing is certain, as far as championships and titles are concerned, it's anyones guess this season.
These things are all absolutely dependent on the driver. Vettel dominates a season, it is the car. mal wins a race, it is because LH was at the back, or RB had a 4 stop strategy, or M Sch had an incident. When other drivers win a race, no questions are asked, it is automatically because they are the best. Weird that, isn't it.
DanDC5 said:
doogz said:
Wasn't there a German, just a couple of races ago pushing drivers off the track? And wasn't there an incident with a German last season, or the season before, on the pit straight, pushing a South American off the track? And didn't that same German drive straight into the back of a different South American driver at the weekend there, then call him an idiot and blame him for it?
And, didn't a different German again, receive a drive through penalty at the weekend for ignoring a flag?
But those South Americans, shocking eh?
There was also a British driver last year who kept crashing into a South American, and then had an attitude problem about it despite it being his fault And, didn't a different German again, receive a drive through penalty at the weekend for ignoring a flag?
But those South Americans, shocking eh?
TheHeretic said:
These things are all absolutely dependent on the driver. Vettel dominates a season, it is the car. mal wins a race, it is because LH was at the back, or RB had a 4 stop strategy, or M Sch had an incident. When other drivers win a race, no questions are asked, it is automatically because they are the best. Weird that, isn't it.
If you're replying to my comment, you didn't really read what I said but made a headline out of the bits you picked to choose. No need to be defensive. It was all reasonable stuff...
andy_s said:
If you're replying to my comment, you didn't really read what I said but made a headline out of the bits you picked to choose.
No need to be defensive. It was all reasonable stuff...
Sorry, are you calling me defensive? No need to be defensive. It was all reasonable stuff...
My point was clear. I read what you wrote, responded that when some drivers win, people think it is because they are the 'greatest', and when others win it is because of circumstance, and luck. That is how these things are. Maldonado managed to win, fairly easily, in a Williams, that has been nowhere near the best, against Fred, and Kimi, fairly and squarely, and people being penalised, or crashing out is nothing to do with it. This is not about what you wrote, but from what people have been writing for years. TheHeretic said:
Sorry, are you calling me defensive? My point was clear. I read what you wrote, responded that when some drivers win, people think it is because they are the 'greatest', and when others win it is because of circumstance, and luck. That is how these things are. Maldonado managed to win, fairly easily, in a Williams, that has been nowhere near the best, against Fred, and Kimi, fairly and squarely, and people being penalised, or crashing out is nothing to do with it. This is not about what you wrote, but from what people have been writing for years.
Ahhhh, no worries, I understand, but from my part I don't offer the circumstances as a reason for his winning, but rather an example of why judging someone (whoever) on one race is problematic. My point was clear. I read what you wrote, responded that when some drivers win, people think it is because they are the 'greatest', and when others win it is because of circumstance, and luck. That is how these things are. Maldonado managed to win, fairly easily, in a Williams, that has been nowhere near the best, against Fred, and Kimi, fairly and squarely, and people being penalised, or crashing out is nothing to do with it. This is not about what you wrote, but from what people have been writing for years. One thing is sure, it would have been a treat to have seen how both MAL and LH would have got on if they started together, that would have been fun, anyway, 'if ifs and ands were tinkers pans' etc.
EDLT said:
dom180 said:
EDLT said:
SmoothCriminal said:
f
ks sake all this wking about Maldonado is making me sick.
He's won ONE race for fks sake and the only reason why he did win is because whether you agree with it or not the FASTEST man on track was put to the back of the grid fks sake get some perspective.
+1,000,000ks sake all this wking about Maldonado is making me sick. He's won ONE race for f
ks sake and the only reason why he did win is because whether you agree with it or not the FASTEST man on track was put to the back of the grid fks sake get some perspective. We got the same rubbish when Rosberg won. There has been plenty of mid-pack drivers that occasionally win a race, Maldonardo (and Rosberg) didn't level up and suddenly become a better driver.
People like DC threw away countless wins (1995) before finally nailing their first....
Maldo showed up well against Rubens last year - outqualifying Rubens in Monaco and Silverstone by a fair margin in his first year and with a higher average place overall - something Jenson failed to do in his champioship year alongside Rubens, with 9 seasons under his belt compared to Maldo being in his first season.....)
I don't think anyone is putting their hands down their trousers and having a little rummage at the thought of that drive. I agree Hamilton was faster, but as mentioned above no one is calling Maldonado the new Senna are they?
They are commenting (with varying degrees of suprise) that Pastor has actually shown himself to be pretty competent given the right opportunity, not just another pay driver patsy.
There is no point getting so het up about Lewis' misfortune that you get cross that people are talking about how Maldonado did quite well considering - because fact of the matter is he did.
OK Hamilton would probably have won without the penalty. But Maldonado would STILL have done a good job with getting second.
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