Be honest...how good are you?
Discussion
cheddar said:
Put a 'I'm a PH'er so really pretty good' road driver in the passenger seat with any half decent racer at the wheel and it'll shut them up for life.
Absolutely correct.As a race engineer I've worked with a lot of drivers over the past 15 years or so. The difference between the fast gentleman driver and the pro is massive.
I've had the pleasure of sitting next to a proper pro (Phil Keen) in our Mosler, around Silverstone, in the damp, on slicks. Ever since that moment I have had no delusions about being a racing driver at all.
I'll also dispute the comment from the person who said that in slow corners most people can be as quick as the pro. The two chicanes at Zolder are classics for that. I've worked with drvers who can be within a couple of tenths of the pros through the first sector and lose it all, and much more, through the two slow chicanes.
I did a fair bit of karting when I was very young, but a combination of illness and lack of finance meant that it never really went anywhere.
Largely because of that, I put a lot of my spare time today into simulation racing and I'm probably in the top 1 or 2 percent of sim-racers, according to my leaderboard position in a few different titles.
I want to get into track days in a big way in the next few years, but finances for the time being are going to see me behind a steering wheel & pedals in my living room, rather than on the track.
Largely because of that, I put a lot of my spare time today into simulation racing and I'm probably in the top 1 or 2 percent of sim-racers, according to my leaderboard position in a few different titles.
I want to get into track days in a big way in the next few years, but finances for the time being are going to see me behind a steering wheel & pedals in my living room, rather than on the track.
Ahonen said:
I'll also dispute the comment from the person who said that in slow corners most people can be as quick as the pro. The two chicanes at Zolder are classics for that. I've worked with drvers who can be within a couple of tenths of the pros through the first sector and lose it all, and much more, through the two slow chicanes.
agree with that, it's usually the fast strights into tight/technical slow corners that's the real separator, where absolute accuracy/commitment is required.pw32 said:
If you think you've got it, go for it. Otherwise you will always look back. That said, plenty of people take up racing later in life when the budget and time is available. I started at 32 (4 1/2 years ago) and don't do bad at National Level.
He, he, he. Don't do bad Mr Runaway Championship Leader 
I "don't do badly" at National Level (although a lower level than pw32), but as I get through my late 30s the young bucks turn up with more money and more talent and lap more quickly than I do. The only chance I have against them in a Championship is that they don't race with much mechanical sympathy or margin for error.
Jez
velocemitch said:
This reminds me of a signature of somebody on the British Rally Forum.... 'The older I get the faster I was'
LOL - know him and have worked with him for years on many rallies from club to international. As I never had the cash to run a car and drive I used my ability with maps to navigate. After road & stage rallies with a season in comp safaris the money ran out and I turned back to marshalling.
The only thing I ever won was a club autotest - it was an MG club, I turned up with a mini and whupped the lot of them.....
I would love to know how I stack up on a good grid.
I have never raced anything other than karts and even then no proper championships.
I ended up 8th in the semifinal of the NKA championship a few years back but being 15.5 stone against 8 stone lads I was always going to be mullered.
I have plenty of trophies from amateur competitions and am generally the fastest at arrive n drive days. I only know 1 person who is faster than me and he is a few stone lighter and karts a lot.
I can't ever remember being beaten by anyone larger than myself. That is how I like to judge myself. I did a session in the fast karts at Milton Keynes a few months back. First time at the track and in a 2 stroke kart and I was the 3rd quickest of about 20 there. The only 2 faster(by less than 0.5sec) were running about 3rd and 5th in the DMAX championship (in the lightweight category and we were running with no ballast on the practice day).
I regularly beat a lad I know who is a F Ford champion and who makes his living from doing circuit instruction and another lad who has been racing rotax for years
I generally punch above my weight on trackdays. When I had my E30 (bone stock with a 100kg passenger) I was lapping just over 2 sec a lap slower than the BMW championship guys on the same track. Although to be fair I was in a 325 and they race 318/320 I think but stripped, with brakes and suspension and track tyres.
I'm seen as the go to guy for track driving tips in my circle of friends (all of which are car nuts and do plenty of track driving between them)
I have a few other random awards and compliments over the years.
The only comparison I have for proper competition is when I did a test day in a Global GT Light. Despite never having driven a wings and slicks and bike engined sequential gearbox car before and the weather alternating wet and dry during the day and being on used tyres (how is that for racing drivers excuses) I managed to knock in a lap that would have qualified me 6th on the grid for the last race they did at the track. I was also about 18-19 stone then and in a 400KG car with 100bhp that wont help. I was also about 2 sec a lap faster than a guy who used to race one in the local championship and he was driving the 160bhp version.
I would really love to race a Radical or something similar but just don't have anywhere near the budget.
I keep thinking of selling the road cars and buying one but then I would not be able to afford to run it.
I have had a National B Licence since I was 15/16 but have only used it for that 1 test day. I did intend to enter a saloon championship when I was younger but the cost of being competitive spiralled as soon as I was in a position to do it.
If anybody needs a driver I'm willing to give anything a go
I have never raced anything other than karts and even then no proper championships.
I ended up 8th in the semifinal of the NKA championship a few years back but being 15.5 stone against 8 stone lads I was always going to be mullered.
I have plenty of trophies from amateur competitions and am generally the fastest at arrive n drive days. I only know 1 person who is faster than me and he is a few stone lighter and karts a lot.
I can't ever remember being beaten by anyone larger than myself. That is how I like to judge myself. I did a session in the fast karts at Milton Keynes a few months back. First time at the track and in a 2 stroke kart and I was the 3rd quickest of about 20 there. The only 2 faster(by less than 0.5sec) were running about 3rd and 5th in the DMAX championship (in the lightweight category and we were running with no ballast on the practice day).
I regularly beat a lad I know who is a F Ford champion and who makes his living from doing circuit instruction and another lad who has been racing rotax for years
I generally punch above my weight on trackdays. When I had my E30 (bone stock with a 100kg passenger) I was lapping just over 2 sec a lap slower than the BMW championship guys on the same track. Although to be fair I was in a 325 and they race 318/320 I think but stripped, with brakes and suspension and track tyres.
I'm seen as the go to guy for track driving tips in my circle of friends (all of which are car nuts and do plenty of track driving between them)
I have a few other random awards and compliments over the years.
The only comparison I have for proper competition is when I did a test day in a Global GT Light. Despite never having driven a wings and slicks and bike engined sequential gearbox car before and the weather alternating wet and dry during the day and being on used tyres (how is that for racing drivers excuses) I managed to knock in a lap that would have qualified me 6th on the grid for the last race they did at the track. I was also about 18-19 stone then and in a 400KG car with 100bhp that wont help. I was also about 2 sec a lap faster than a guy who used to race one in the local championship and he was driving the 160bhp version.
I would really love to race a Radical or something similar but just don't have anywhere near the budget.
I keep thinking of selling the road cars and buying one but then I would not be able to afford to run it.
I have had a National B Licence since I was 15/16 but have only used it for that 1 test day. I did intend to enter a saloon championship when I was younger but the cost of being competitive spiralled as soon as I was in a position to do it.
If anybody needs a driver I'm willing to give anything a go
I used to navigate in a 100 inch Bowler, we moved from club-level events to the French tout-terrain championship where we were consistently first or second in class and usually in the twenties at the end of the event (one event we were tenth but that was a very wet weekend).
The last year we entered an event near Le Havre, the Bowler's average rally speed was 45km/h over short, tight stages through Normandy Countryside - farmyards, villages and tracks.
The following year we changed to a 306-bodied special which averaged 60km/h on the same event - the second event in that car where stages ran in the dark through forests brought home to me that I did not have "IT" - racing in the Bowler was fun and fairly serious, the 306 style car required semi-pro levels of commitment from the driver and navigator.
The last year we entered an event near Le Havre, the Bowler's average rally speed was 45km/h over short, tight stages through Normandy Countryside - farmyards, villages and tracks.
The following year we changed to a 306-bodied special which averaged 60km/h on the same event - the second event in that car where stages ran in the dark through forests brought home to me that I did not have "IT" - racing in the Bowler was fun and fairly serious, the 306 style car required semi-pro levels of commitment from the driver and navigator.
I raced on and off for 20 years, winning a few clubbie races. I thought I was OK, but wanted to do a tough one-make championship. I managed to get the budget to do Ginettas in their heyday of 35+ car grids in 2005/6 and scored several top six finishes and one win in a field that included some future BTCC + British GT race winners. However, I also had several races where I was well and truly exposed as someone who hadn't prepared well enough in terms of 1) technical understanding 2) deep analysis of my technique 3) Mental approach and 4) Fitness
I was someone that knew that, on my day, I could be OK. But I was relying on those 'days' to happen.....rather than making them happen.
Looking back 20 years, if I was a teenager I wish I knew what I know now. I spent a lot of my club racing moaning about others, when in fact I needed to work harder myself. Back then, I thought that being able to monster fast corners could make me a star, but hadn't given much thought to technique in the fiddly bits and what work to do between the races.
If I could give three pieces of advice to wannabe racers, it would be:
1) Get coaching. Find someone you can work with who can unlock your potential.
2) Get to know what your tyre temperatures are telling you. A good tyre engineer should be your best`friend. (Felipe needs one now)
3) If you ever think your competitors are cheating/have an unfair budget/have a better car - divert this energy to improving yourself instead. You may surprise yourself.
I was someone that knew that, on my day, I could be OK. But I was relying on those 'days' to happen.....rather than making them happen.
Looking back 20 years, if I was a teenager I wish I knew what I know now. I spent a lot of my club racing moaning about others, when in fact I needed to work harder myself. Back then, I thought that being able to monster fast corners could make me a star, but hadn't given much thought to technique in the fiddly bits and what work to do between the races.
If I could give three pieces of advice to wannabe racers, it would be:
1) Get coaching. Find someone you can work with who can unlock your potential.
2) Get to know what your tyre temperatures are telling you. A good tyre engineer should be your best`friend. (Felipe needs one now)
3) If you ever think your competitors are cheating/have an unfair budget/have a better car - divert this energy to improving yourself instead. You may surprise yourself.
Z3MCJez said:
pw32 said:
If you think you've got it, go for it. Otherwise you will always look back. That said, plenty of people take up racing later in life when the budget and time is available. I started at 32 (4 1/2 years ago) and don't do bad at National Level.
He, he, he. Don't do bad Mr Runaway Championship Leader I "don't do badly" at National Level (although a lower level than pw32), but as I get through my late 30s the young bucks turn up with more money and more talent and lap more quickly than I do. The only chance I have against them in a Championship is that they don't race with much mechanical sympathy or margin for error.
Jez
if you think your good, go and prove it to yourself everytime you get in the car. Thats always my mentality...even when I was poop!Redlake27 said:
I raced on and off for 20 years, winning a few clubbie races. I thought I was OK, but wanted to do a tough one-make championship. I managed to get the budget to do Ginettas in their heyday of 35+ car grids in 2005/6 and scored several top six finishes and one win in a field that included some future BTCC + British GT race winners. However, I also had several races where I was well and truly exposed as someone who hadn't prepared well enough in terms of 1) technical understanding 2) deep analysis of my technique 3) Mental approach and 4) Fitness
I was someone that knew that, on my day, I could be OK. But I was relying on those 'days' to happen.....rather than making them happen.
Looking back 20 years, if I was a teenager I wish I knew what I know now. I spent a lot of my club racing moaning about others, when in fact I needed to work harder myself. Back then, I thought that being able to monster fast corners could make me a star, but hadn't given much thought to technique in the fiddly bits and what work to do between the races.
If I could give three pieces of advice to wannabe racers, it would be:
1) Get coaching. Find someone you can work with who can unlock your potential.
2) Get to know what your tyre temperatures are telling you. A good tyre engineer should be your best`friend. (Felipe needs one now)
3) If you ever think your competitors are cheating/have an unfair budget/have a better car - divert this energy to improving yourself instead. You may surprise yourself.
All of this is perfectly true. You won't read a better post all day.I was someone that knew that, on my day, I could be OK. But I was relying on those 'days' to happen.....rather than making them happen.
Looking back 20 years, if I was a teenager I wish I knew what I know now. I spent a lot of my club racing moaning about others, when in fact I needed to work harder myself. Back then, I thought that being able to monster fast corners could make me a star, but hadn't given much thought to technique in the fiddly bits and what work to do between the races.
If I could give three pieces of advice to wannabe racers, it would be:
1) Get coaching. Find someone you can work with who can unlock your potential.
2) Get to know what your tyre temperatures are telling you. A good tyre engineer should be your best`friend. (Felipe needs one now)
3) If you ever think your competitors are cheating/have an unfair budget/have a better car - divert this energy to improving yourself instead. You may surprise yourself.
The amount of people who think my car is hooky is hilarious, I find it a little sad they have such little understanding of driving, setup or data. It only makes me want to beat them even more. Motorsport, full of sour grapes!
Not good enough...
...yet
Still haven't won a championship race out of my 26 attempts. I have had 6 podiums. I've had a class win in a non-champ race, a team win at the Holly Birkett and I've won a few corporate karting events despite being up against about 50 <27 year old engineers, most of which were keen car/bike people, and many of which were at least 20kg lighter.
...yet
Still haven't won a championship race out of my 26 attempts. I have had 6 podiums. I've had a class win in a non-champ race, a team win at the Holly Birkett and I've won a few corporate karting events despite being up against about 50 <27 year old engineers, most of which were keen car/bike people, and many of which were at least 20kg lighter.
Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 28th May 17:43
Probably way off the mark, but I feel as though on any given corner with a decent amount of practice I would be as quick as any driver currently in f1, however when it comes to a lap I would he no where near as for a race, forget it!
Went on a karting day and it was strongly recommended to me that I take it up due to my lap times and consistency (in the wet I might add on slick tyres) after they found out that I didn't already race. Must say that did make me feel good
Went on a karting day and it was strongly recommended to me that I take it up due to my lap times and consistency (in the wet I might add on slick tyres) after they found out that I didn't already race. Must say that did make me feel good
I am a driving God - end of.
However, on Saturday I thought it might be interesting to have a few laps around Goodwood with the resident instructor (John with the beard for those who may know him). One lap later and I'm officially a plonka who has a fast car, yet can't drive as well as he thought, and goes through gears quicker than Jordan goes through men.
Within 5 laps I was 10 seconds faster per lap, 10% faster which is a massive improvement (I wasn't timing on a track day, Harry's laptimer did that for me!). I really had no idea I had it so wrong!
So, even driving Gods can do with the odd bit of tuition now and then
However, on Saturday I thought it might be interesting to have a few laps around Goodwood with the resident instructor (John with the beard for those who may know him). One lap later and I'm officially a plonka who has a fast car, yet can't drive as well as he thought, and goes through gears quicker than Jordan goes through men.
Within 5 laps I was 10 seconds faster per lap, 10% faster which is a massive improvement (I wasn't timing on a track day, Harry's laptimer did that for me!). I really had no idea I had it so wrong!
So, even driving Gods can do with the odd bit of tuition now and then
kazste said:
Probably way off the mark, but I feel as though on any given corner with a decent amount of practice I would be as quick as any driver currently in f1, however when it comes to a lap I would he no where near as for a race, forget it!
Went on a karting day and it was strongly recommended to me that I take it up due to my lap times and consistency (in the wet I might add on slick tyres) after they found out that I didn't already race. Must say that did make me feel good
Brilliant. You've been karting and now you think you can match an F1 driver in a corner?! You're right, you are way off the mark! Have you ever driven with a decent driver?Went on a karting day and it was strongly recommended to me that I take it up due to my lap times and consistency (in the wet I might add on slick tyres) after they found out that I didn't already race. Must say that did make me feel good
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