Ahh, brilliant. Instead of uniting in our love of the last place on Earth where we can drive our own cars to our own limits, you want me to explain why sometimes my car is at 40-degrees angle of attack on cold, wet deserted days.

A crash can happen any time any where at the 'Ring, regardless of whether I'm going slow and sideways or fast and loose... I'd much rather do slow laps with gobs of oversteer than do a fast wet lap with the car 10% loose at 210kmh. It's an approach that has served me well for wet TF sessions for many, many years.

I once got served with a pink notice for overtaking whilst drifting (not a fair cop, it was a moment of skittishness over an oil patch) about 5 years ago, but since then I've toned it down...

P.S. That light-hearted interlude has nothing to do with what I wrote about... which is educating visitors as to the dangers of fluid-spills and limping cars home to the barriers...

As it is a public road, albeit a toll road, would my ADAC membership cover enable me to get picked-up/towed away for no additional cost in case of an accident or tyre blow out? As I would if I broke down on the A8 or A96, for example? (I've never been to the NBR).

Keyword in your post there "scumball" ie old knackers and it proved the point really didnt it. oil and coolant leakage everywhere woudl you have the same attitude if you where injured and prive and joy smashed? I would put money on you coming on here bleating about people blasting old nails round the ring.

I think TF is going to continue to be a gongshow, largely due to the fact that most of the Brits who now do it are clueless and have no insurance.

Simply put, but probably accurate.

400 horsepower and a few laps on gran turismo doesn't make a ringmeister.

RIP Charly.

Dale - sorry to hear about your loss.

I think that people should just respect the 'ring and treat it with cautionm especially if unexperienced...

I've never been, would like to go in the next year or so, but I admit that it would be daunting going there, knowing how busy it gets, what can happen, etc.

Just or clarification, my comment about barrier damage was referring to when people have a slight scrape down the barrier, causing a bit of damage to their motor but maybe just leaving a bit of paint on the barrier, obviously they repair any 'proper' damage!

Condolences for Charly.

Whilst living in Germany I went to tourist days at both the Nuerburgring & Hockenheimring as much as time/money allowed. What was significant about Hockenheim was/is that they seperate the cars and bikes in to seperate sessions. I appreciate that we were using the short circuit at Hockenheim which is approx 1/4 to 1/5 the distance of a lap at the Nuerburgring but maybe that could be a way ahead. Send out a few cars to examine the track before the bike session, though that would reduce track time for the punters & profit for the Ring, but then so does an accident. I've sat in the carpark/Grune Holle there enough times waiting for them to sort out a mishap to know. Failing that, maybe a regular inspection, though I assume it's the fresh spills that are the most lethal.

Could a voluntary reporting system be put in place ? If someone has an accident, even minor, they note where it occurred & enter it into an interactive map terminal when they get back to the start. It would allow the Ring staff to sort it out & give you a warning as you go on the track e.g. in a similar fashion to the motorway signs. Though some people may be reticent to do this incase they get a bill for the Armco.

As excellent as the Nuerburgring is I was never entirely happy mixing it with the bikes. I felt they assumed car drivers knew what they were doing on the approaches to some of the corners, which may not have always been the case, & reduced there margins accordingly. BTW, I have a full bike licence as well as doing four wheels, though never riden a bike on a track.

One other point, There is no real briefing to tell you what to do out there. You can just turn up, put your money in the ticket machine & off you go. Maybe something more needs to be done to tell people what to do.

I really couldn't believe someone had actually written this, not only is it offensive, but where it does stray from being simply offensive into attempting to make a point it is simply ignorant. As have the couple of posts since supporting this as 'common sense'!

I think I speak for almost all when I say that we love driving on the ring, I personally have never driven anywhere more exciting or challenging. But what I like is the glorious winding ribbon of tarmac itself, any safety improvements are not going to change the track or how we drive on it, all they are going to do and all Dale is suggesting is that the consequences of falling foul of someone else's actions, or running out of talent yourself do not end in serious injury, death or financial ruin.

Increasing the level of safety to that of the track days that already take place on the ring and taking small steps that prevent financial concerns preventing people from acting responsibly will not dampen your enjoyment when your driving, but it will certainly make things a lot better if and when you eventually fall off.

Frankly I think you should apologise to Dale, but something tells me that might be wishful thinking.

[High horse now dismounted from]