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ajprice
7,227 posts
65 months
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said: I suppose the question is where do we go from here? The teams evidently think exhaust blown diffusers are an extremely useful way of generating downforce without a commensurate drag penalty, and are willing to go to fairly extreme lengths to use them. Exhaust exits at the rear of the car with no bodywork around it.
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Use Psychology
9,797 posts
61 months
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I think LH will definitely be on pole and he will probably win. the mclaren was quickest by a decent margin in hockenheim.
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Use Psychology
9,797 posts
61 months
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davepoth said: They aren't altering the torque with fuelling; for exhaust blowing it has to be done with ignition timing. the torque is not the issue imo - and for some reason most news coverage seems to have focused on the 'reduced torque' aspect. my reading of the situation is that the reduced torque is merely a side effect, a by-product, of configuring the engine map to produce maximum exhaust gas volume - which they are doing to feed their diffuser.
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900T-R
18,560 posts
126 months
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Use Psychology said: the torque is not the issue imo - and for some reason most news coverage seems to have focused on the 'reduced torque' aspect.
my reading of the situation is that the reduced torque is merely a side effect, a by-product, of configuring the engine map to produce maximum exhaust gas volume - which they are doing to feed their diffuser. Quite. 
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Use Psychology
9,797 posts
61 months
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and indeed if the change stops red bull from blowing their diffuser, what we will see is Webber much closer to (or ahead of) Vettel again, as we did in most of the first half of the season.
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skinny
3,375 posts
104 months
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i thought the whole idea of raising the exhausts up to exit above the floor was to prevent all this diffuser blowing stuff!
this is the problem i have with f1 rule makers - they put in a bunch of regulations to prevent something happening, instead of just banning that thing from happening in the first place. The teams just find another way to make this thing happen whilst complying with the regulation.
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900T-R
18,560 posts
126 months
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i thought that was the whole point of F1... to develop things as far as they go within the regulatory framework at the time... you go over the edge & can rightly expect a slap on the wrist, but stay within whatever is there in black and white and you shouldn't expect to be hit with 'yeah, but we meant to keep you from doing XYZ...".
If you want total clarity of rules, a spec formula is where it's at... you use approved part X in its unmodified state and are within the rules, or you don't and fall foul. Personally, I'd find a 'top level' spec formula the most boring thing on earth (and it would lead to driver primadonnas as per footballers; at least F1 drivers show a bit more humility, realising that they are merely part of a team where every single mamber is instrumental in pushing the boundaries, every time & all of the time.
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stephen300o
12,678 posts
97 months
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Use Psychology said: I think LH will definitely be on pole and he will probably win. the mclaren was quickest by a decent margin in hockenheim. Very different circuit though.
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A911DOM
4,061 posts
104 months
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Whilst no-one wants to stand in the way of clever innovation and inventiveness - it seems Red Bull are stepping across the boundaries time and time again to gain an advantage.
Either relax the rules to allow them to come up with some real useful and clever stuff - Or, as has been said above, tie the rules up so as they have fixed available options outside of which they cannot deviate.
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Nick M
3,137 posts
92 months
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A911DOM said: Whilst no-one wants to stand in the way of clever innovation and inventiveness - it seems Red Bull are stepping across the boundaries time and time again to gain an advantage. Indeed. And while the "there is no spirit of the regs, only the letter of the regs" argument, which I'm perfectly OK with, there have been a few instances which have made me wonder how much time and energy they're throwing at things in order for them to meet the specific measurement regs (flexible wings and floor, for example) but which behave very differently in practice (and qualifying and the race for that matter...  ) where they patently wouldn't conform to the regs. The exhaust blowing one seems to be marginal, at best, on the 'letter of the regs' side of things, let alone the fact that it's clearly doing something which the regs set out to try to eliminate (but which maybe wasn't worded sufficiently well to completely block off that avenue of research for Red Bull). A911DOM said: Either relax the rules to allow them to come up with some real useful and clever stuff - Or, as has been said above, tie the rules up so as they have fixed available options outside of which they cannot deviate. Except relaxing the rules creates the risk of a) an expensive 'arms race' in which some (most ?) teams simply can't afford to compete and b) boring races because one team has a runaway advantage which takes time (and resources) for the other teams to close the gap and be competitive again. I hate to say it, but I'd rather have the close but tyre limited racing we have now now than a runaway winner who has the best technology (or rather, the biggest budget...).
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davepoth
19,927 posts
68 months
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ajprice said: davepoth said: I suppose the question is where do we go from here? The teams evidently think exhaust blown diffusers are an extremely useful way of generating downforce without a commensurate drag penalty, and are willing to go to fairly extreme lengths to use them. Exhaust exits at the rear of the car with no bodywork around it. But they are using the exhaust to indirectly blow the diffuser. I'm not a multimillionaire aerodynamicist otherwise I would work in F1, so I can't explain the how exactly but that's what they're doing.
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MGJohn
6,665 posts
52 months
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Steve Rogerson said: Hi Steve and welcome. Very interesting.
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toppstuff
8,386 posts
116 months
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Hamilton,
Maark,
Grosjean,
Alonso,
Vettel,
Button,
Koby,
Kimi,
Britney,
Schumacher will crash into someone for some reason. Maybe Perez or Mental Maldonado.
It's about time Maldonado and Schumacher met on the track. Both of them will end up on the naughty step.
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McClure
1,222 posts
15 months
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I think someone at Macca should tell Lewis to put the twitter away...
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P-Jay
3,648 posts
60 months
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McClure said: I think someone at Macca should tell Lewis to put the twitter away... Is he still tweeting pics of rappers then?
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djstevec
2,085 posts
43 months
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Andrew Benson @andrewbensonf1
FIA has introduced a new rule aimed at stopping Red Bull doing what it didn't like them doing in Germany.
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McClure
1,222 posts
15 months
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P-Jay said: Is he still tweeting pics of rappers then? Yeah. And of him trying to be all "gangsta".  That's harmless though. It was the apparent endorsement of notorious woman-beater Chris Brown  that caused me to raise my eyebrows. 
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Composite Guru
407 posts
72 months
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djstevec said: Andrew Benson @andrewbensonf1
FIA has introduced a new rule aimed at stopping Red Bull doing what it didn't like them doing in Germany. I'm sure that will mean others are affected too. Red Bull can't be the only ones inventive enough to do this.
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McClure
1,222 posts
15 months
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djstevec said: Andrew Benson @andrewbensonf1
FIA has introduced a new rule aimed at stopping Red Bull doing what it didn't like them doing in Germany. A pint says Maaark beats Vettel in this race then.
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djstevec
2,085 posts
43 months
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McClure said: djstevec said: Andrew Benson @andrewbensonf1
FIA has introduced a new rule aimed at stopping Red Bull doing what it didn't like them doing in Germany. A pint says Maaark beats Vettel in this race then. Here's hoping.
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