What would YOU do to change rallying?
Discussion
EDLT said:
To everyone who thinks they should switch to 2WD, what do you suggest the teams do with their now worthless 4WD cars that owe them £100,000 or more?
Maybe the manufacturers could buy them back using the infinite money pit they apparently have.
The thread is about changing the WRC. Plenty of other championships the 4wd cars could be used in...Maybe the manufacturers could buy them back using the infinite money pit they apparently have.
Or even convert existing cars to RWD. Wouldn't be difficult.
DanDC5 said:
EDLT said:
To everyone who thinks they should switch to 2WD, what do you suggest the teams do with their now worthless 4WD cars that owe them £100,000 or more?
Maybe the manufacturers could buy them back using the infinite money pit they apparently have.
The thread is about changing the WRC. Plenty of other championships the 4wd cars could be used in...Maybe the manufacturers could buy them back using the infinite money pit they apparently have.
Or even convert existing cars to RWD. Wouldn't be difficult.
2. Many of the cars have transversely mounted engines, so yes it would.
Work on getting the events closer to population centres. San fran is a great idea. X games has been pretty big.
Compact the stages into a smaller area providing greater spectator access. Travelling between stages is a PITA sometimes, so a lot of spectators may only see 30 odd cars for one pass. Bless you're die hard you won't be too bothered about seeing it again.
Would also make for better tv coverage.
Cheap spectator access. Can't afford to be pricey, not enough people interested.
More powerful cars with less electronics. About the same speed overall but more sideways? Have a CRT type thing to limit spending.
Compact the stages into a smaller area providing greater spectator access. Travelling between stages is a PITA sometimes, so a lot of spectators may only see 30 odd cars for one pass. Bless you're die hard you won't be too bothered about seeing it again.
Would also make for better tv coverage.
Cheap spectator access. Can't afford to be pricey, not enough people interested.
More powerful cars with less electronics. About the same speed overall but more sideways? Have a CRT type thing to limit spending.
I assume the OP is talking about WRC not just rallying in general?
WRC doesn't interest me in the slightest to be honest. Even when the IRC came to the Circuit of Ireland this year I was more interested in Irish Tarmac running alongside it.
Donegal Rally still brings the whole of Letterkenny to a standstill for a few days.
Those saying bring back mammoth rallys, the Circuit of Ireland has had to cut the length back due to the cost incurred to the drivers. There was a time it covered every corner of the island but it doesn't even make it out of the North now.
My favourite rally moment of this year was actually Garry Jennings beating two of the new WRC minis and a host of WRC Subarus @ Lurgan Park in his battered Classic Impreza.
WRC doesn't interest me in the slightest to be honest. Even when the IRC came to the Circuit of Ireland this year I was more interested in Irish Tarmac running alongside it.
Donegal Rally still brings the whole of Letterkenny to a standstill for a few days.
Those saying bring back mammoth rallys, the Circuit of Ireland has had to cut the length back due to the cost incurred to the drivers. There was a time it covered every corner of the island but it doesn't even make it out of the North now.
My favourite rally moment of this year was actually Garry Jennings beating two of the new WRC minis and a host of WRC Subarus @ Lurgan Park in his battered Classic Impreza.
It's not about homologation or saying it must be certain type of car. Any car will do. Pick it out of the classifieds and then modify it to minimum safety requirements. Make them road cars that have been prepared to withstand the assault of Pundershaw, Grizedale and Clocaenog*. It doesn't matter what car you chose. If it's a rough gravel stage you're going to need really long suspension, not modified inner wheel arches.
The cars will be grouped according to drivetrain and power. This way a Fiat 500 could beat a Porsche Cayman or an RS3. It may have slower stage times, but if it wins more in it's group than Porsche guy it will win the rally. Much like John Cleland won the 89 BTCC championship in an Astra.
The cars will be grouped according to drivetrain and power. This way a Fiat 500 could beat a Porsche Cayman or an RS3. It may have slower stage times, but if it wins more in it's group than Porsche guy it will win the rally. Much like John Cleland won the 89 BTCC championship in an Astra.
- It's a marathon not a sprint. You will drive over 1,000 miles to complete my rally.
2 very simple things need to be done to make it 20 times better.
engines - increase the size of the restrictor so that the cars can breath easier and maybe have 80 - 100 more hp. At the moment they sound like F3 cars!
Get someone who knows how to film a rally, to film the wrc, There is some seriously good stuff on the youtube of the 2012 season, then broadcast it on a channel that can afford HD ( not motors tv)
2 quick fixes that'll make it much better.
engines - increase the size of the restrictor so that the cars can breath easier and maybe have 80 - 100 more hp. At the moment they sound like F3 cars!
Get someone who knows how to film a rally, to film the wrc, There is some seriously good stuff on the youtube of the 2012 season, then broadcast it on a channel that can afford HD ( not motors tv)
2 quick fixes that'll make it much better.
Dead easy.
Make half the stage tarmac, the other half loose. Make the stage a series of loops, or circuits as you were - rather than 1 long stage. Buy Martin Schanche a ludicrous turbo-ed car, and jack him up to the eyeballs on Red bull. Whack a bunch of other similarly nutty cars on the grid, then play sweepstakes on wether
A) Schanche's car dissapears off into a cloud of dust, winning.
B) Schanche's turbo dissapears into a cloud of smoke, DNF'ing.
C) Schanche's bumper dissapears into a cloud of bits, crashing.
D) Will Gollop.
God I miss Rallycross of a sunday morning!
Make half the stage tarmac, the other half loose. Make the stage a series of loops, or circuits as you were - rather than 1 long stage. Buy Martin Schanche a ludicrous turbo-ed car, and jack him up to the eyeballs on Red bull. Whack a bunch of other similarly nutty cars on the grid, then play sweepstakes on wether
A) Schanche's car dissapears off into a cloud of dust, winning.
B) Schanche's turbo dissapears into a cloud of smoke, DNF'ing.
C) Schanche's bumper dissapears into a cloud of bits, crashing.
D) Will Gollop.
God I miss Rallycross of a sunday morning!
I think a lot of you are focusing on the wrong area (the cars). The thing that gave rallying its personality was that each individual rally was different and interesting. With the rule changes that David Richards brought in that was lost.
It wasn't so bad in say Corsica which was a compact event but it killed the Safari and utterly decimated what was the RAC.
The big attraction with the old RAC (lets face it Grp B was a temporary attraction), was that it would virtually pass your front door. Now its stuck in Wales (admittedly they are good stages) but it only represents about 1% of the old rally!
The current crop of WRC cars are pretty good to watch but the "event" is really poor and as interest waines, the number of competitors drop, the number of spectators drop and so on.
As for bring back homoligation, that will never work! Costs are too high and performance cars just aren't popular enough , especially if they brought back old grp A regs (build 5000 cars or you cant compete!). The FIA are now touting road safety b
ks and probably wouldn't want to be seen to be promoting an increase in the number of cheaper performance cars on the road.
Also most car companies have to hit or reduce there fleet CO2 levels, producing large numbers of homologation specials would also be bad for this (so yet another reason against). Its a nice thought but it wont happen.
It wasn't so bad in say Corsica which was a compact event but it killed the Safari and utterly decimated what was the RAC.
The big attraction with the old RAC (lets face it Grp B was a temporary attraction), was that it would virtually pass your front door. Now its stuck in Wales (admittedly they are good stages) but it only represents about 1% of the old rally!
The current crop of WRC cars are pretty good to watch but the "event" is really poor and as interest waines, the number of competitors drop, the number of spectators drop and so on.
As for bring back homoligation, that will never work! Costs are too high and performance cars just aren't popular enough , especially if they brought back old grp A regs (build 5000 cars or you cant compete!). The FIA are now touting road safety b
ks and probably wouldn't want to be seen to be promoting an increase in the number of cheaper performance cars on the road. Also most car companies have to hit or reduce there fleet CO2 levels, producing large numbers of homologation specials would also be bad for this (so yet another reason against). Its a nice thought but it wont happen.
I'm afraid you're spot on. The most significant change to the sport has been the 'Cloverleaf' format - and it has done the most damage. It has been my biggest bugbear for the last 10+ years. I even remember when the 'idea' of the cloverleaf was announced - there was plenty of muttering and scepticism.
And what persuaded the teams, etc?? DR's drive to make the WRC 'F1 on Gravel' - so the promises of LiveTV, more newspaper coverage, more sponsors, etc which would all bring in more £$£$£$£$ So everybody signed up for it.
Would you change Le Mans to 6 Hours and run it on the Bugatti circuit??? That is basically the WRC now.
Think of the massive media coverage the old RAC used to get - everything teams, Manufacturers would want - Exposure!! All over the country. Now compare to RallyGB in a part of Wales - and you're telling me that's what the stakeholders want???
And what persuaded the teams, etc?? DR's drive to make the WRC 'F1 on Gravel' - so the promises of LiveTV, more newspaper coverage, more sponsors, etc which would all bring in more £$£$£$£$ So everybody signed up for it.
Would you change Le Mans to 6 Hours and run it on the Bugatti circuit??? That is basically the WRC now.
Think of the massive media coverage the old RAC used to get - everything teams, Manufacturers would want - Exposure!! All over the country. Now compare to RallyGB in a part of Wales - and you're telling me that's what the stakeholders want???
Open rules, max power 600bhp.
Or
like F1 introduced DRS to improve the show (for TV audiences), make the cars RWD with a control tyre with less grip to make it more exciting.
Or
make them electric cars only for silence in the forests
Or
like F1 introduced DRS to improve the show (for TV audiences), make the cars RWD with a control tyre with less grip to make it more exciting.
Or
make them electric cars only for silence in the forests
Some Gump said:
Dead easy.
Make half the stage tarmac, the other half loose. Make the stage a series of loops, or circuits as you were - rather than 1 long stage. Buy Martin Schanche a ludicrous turbo-ed car, and jack him up to the eyeballs on Red bull. Whack a bunch of other similarly nutty cars on the grid, then play sweepstakes on wether
A) Schanche's car dissapears off into a cloud of dust, winning.
B) Schanche's turbo dissapears into a cloud of smoke, DNF'ing.
C) Schanche's bumper dissapears into a cloud of bits, crashing.
D) Will Gollop.
God I miss Rallycross of a sunday morning!
I quite like this too Make half the stage tarmac, the other half loose. Make the stage a series of loops, or circuits as you were - rather than 1 long stage. Buy Martin Schanche a ludicrous turbo-ed car, and jack him up to the eyeballs on Red bull. Whack a bunch of other similarly nutty cars on the grid, then play sweepstakes on wether
A) Schanche's car dissapears off into a cloud of dust, winning.
B) Schanche's turbo dissapears into a cloud of smoke, DNF'ing.
C) Schanche's bumper dissapears into a cloud of bits, crashing.
D) Will Gollop.
God I miss Rallycross of a sunday morning!
The current crop of cars are actually really good and great to watch, they seem to be the closest thing to Grp B other than group B. Keep the cars as they are.
Allow a WRC(clubmen) class to be created, a la the Grp A days so more teams could build the cars, and they wouldn't need to be the full WRC spec. I went through the entry to the 1995 RAC and there was something like 38 grp A8 cars OUTSIDE of the works ones. Some were starting at 120+. They were not full works cars, so allow something similar again and get more clubmen involved without the need of full WRC spec cars.
Get rid of super-rallye
Allow events to be more creative, better routes and become individual events again. So tey can range from 2-4 days. Allow more remote servicing and remote overnight halts if organisers want to do this.
Get the promoter and TV rights sorted.
Most of the above is starting to happen, very slowly, but this is why the WRC is hopefully about to hit another purple batch....
Allow a WRC(clubmen) class to be created, a la the Grp A days so more teams could build the cars, and they wouldn't need to be the full WRC spec. I went through the entry to the 1995 RAC and there was something like 38 grp A8 cars OUTSIDE of the works ones. Some were starting at 120+. They were not full works cars, so allow something similar again and get more clubmen involved without the need of full WRC spec cars.
Get rid of super-rallye
Allow events to be more creative, better routes and become individual events again. So tey can range from 2-4 days. Allow more remote servicing and remote overnight halts if organisers want to do this.
Get the promoter and TV rights sorted.
Most of the above is starting to happen, very slowly, but this is why the WRC is hopefully about to hit another purple batch....
sanf said:
Allow a WRC(clubmen) class to be created, a la the Grp A days so more teams could build the cars, and they wouldn't need to be the full WRC spec. I went through the entry to the 1995 RAC and there was something like 38 grp A8 cars OUTSIDE of the works ones. Some were starting at 120+. They were not full works cars, so allow something similar again and get more clubmen involved without the need of full WRC spec cars.
The SWRC already exists.As usual in these threads, nobody mentioned the elephant in the room...
WRC is still popular outside of the UK!
EDLT said:
sanf said:
Allow a WRC(clubmen) class to be created, a la the Grp A days so more teams could build the cars, and they wouldn't need to be the full WRC spec. I went through the entry to the 1995 RAC and there was something like 38 grp A8 cars OUTSIDE of the works ones. Some were starting at 120+. They were not full works cars, so allow something similar again and get more clubmen involved without the need of full WRC spec cars.
The SWRC already exists.As usual in these threads, nobody mentioned the elephant in the room...
WRC is still popular outside of the UK!
At the moment if you want to have a go at a WRC event in 'WRC' level car then you can only go to M-sport/Citroen/Pro-drive to buy the car. Under group 'A' cars could be built by different companies to different specs. Escort Cosworth's were built by Boreham but also by Malcolm Wilson, Mike Little, RED etc. So there were more cars for people to use on events.
The WRC is 'more' popular in other countires, but still not on the level it once was. But the FIA are working on this, and doing a good job.
I read Ecclestone's biography not so long ago and it seemed clear that himself and Mosley are to blame for the demise of WRC in order to allow F1 to continue to flourish as it did. With the seventh Concorde Agreement set to be revealed next year, I dare say it will take a long time for it to recover if it ever will.
sanf said:
EDLT said:
sanf said:
Allow a WRC(clubmen) class to be created, a la the Grp A days so more teams could build the cars, and they wouldn't need to be the full WRC spec. I went through the entry to the 1995 RAC and there was something like 38 grp A8 cars OUTSIDE of the works ones. Some were starting at 120+. They were not full works cars, so allow something similar again and get more clubmen involved without the need of full WRC spec cars.
The SWRC already exists.As usual in these threads, nobody mentioned the elephant in the room...
WRC is still popular outside of the UK!
At the moment if you want to have a go at a WRC event in 'WRC' level car then you can only go to M-sport/Citroen/Pro-drive to buy the car. Under group 'A' cars could be built by different companies to different specs. Escort Cosworth's were built by Boreham but also by Malcolm Wilson, Mike Little, RED etc. So there were more cars for people to use on events.
The WRC is 'more' popular in other countires, but still not on the level it once was. But the FIA are working on this, and doing a good job.
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