What would YOU do to change rallying?
Discussion
E-B said:
Some of you may have seen the small handful of landrovers on the WRGB earlier in the month, I'd have loved to have been able to join them and enter in my Standard Production Spec Classic Range Rover but according to the MSA Blue Book, the standard Rover V8 isn't compliant so i can't have a Stage Rally Logbook (not required for Cross Country y'see).
....
More competitors eligable to enter, more entries recieved. More entries/variety = more spectators. More speccy's more advertising opportunities for sponsors, more speccy's/sponsors more TV time.
So come on MSA lets relax/ change the rules again and get our sport back to where it should be.
I shouldn't have to go overseas to register & logbook my car with the overseas motorsports governing body just so i can compete here in the UK surely?
Absolutely spot on, I too have a Cross Country log booked Land Rover (A super production Defender 90) that runs a near standard carb fed V8. It's never going to scare a Subaru but it does look and sound great. But the MSA thought police say NO.....
More competitors eligable to enter, more entries recieved. More entries/variety = more spectators. More speccy's more advertising opportunities for sponsors, more speccy's/sponsors more TV time.
So come on MSA lets relax/ change the rules again and get our sport back to where it should be.
I shouldn't have to go overseas to register & logbook my car with the overseas motorsports governing body just so i can compete here in the UK surely?
I can spend 20,000 on a Millington Diamond at 300bhp and then it could get a Stage Log Book and that's fine but £150 of 40 year old V8 making about 140bhp? Nope too powerful!
What the MSA don't get is that variety is the spice of life..and rallying. The more bizarre the cars allowed in (as long as they're safe) the more interest in the sport. The more entries you get and rallying may grow from the clubman up.
If you look at how Irish rallying is still doing well despite the economy I think the MSA needs to look hard at what we're doing wrong over here. They did commission that large report which had a few good idea including the idea of spliting day time and night time road rally regs which creates a half way house sort of event that may attract new blood.
There are some fundamental issues at the top that need to be addressed. It can be summed up in one letter I have from one of the head technical bods at the MSA stating why they were refusing to upgrade the 88" I now use for rallying from Cross Country to Stage log book. They claimed as the roll cage wasn't built to rallying regs they weren't going to entertain it.
In fact the tubing was 50% bigger with double the wall thickness than required by the rallying regs and in fact turned out considerably stronger than required!!!
As it is the 88" got it's log book despite moans that it was a commercial vehicle (it's not it's duel purpose) and low and behold the re confirmation that commercial registered vehicles weren't eligable for Stage logbooks.
It's as if they want rallying to be more dull and use falde grounds of safety as an excuse.
Classic example...the ban of motorbike engines in new build rally cars a few years ago. Reason....er....."safety" apparently.
From a personal point, I have never cared for rallying much at all, mainly due to the rather ordinary cars used. While I understand that is rather the point, seeing more sporting cars as a base would attract me moreso, although I understand this is a rather old comment on rallying as is - 'make em RWD, add Ferraris Porsche' ect ect.
Thats not to say that I would make rallying a GT comp, rather add another category. Also rather than 'super cars' Id like to see more gt86, 370z, mid range coupes used.
Thats not to say that I would make rallying a GT comp, rather add another category. Also rather than 'super cars' Id like to see more gt86, 370z, mid range coupes used.
Allyc85 said:
DJRC said:
5 day rallies.
Night stages.
No pace notes on the RAC/network Q/whatever its called these days.
Run proper stages.
And give the teams and organisers a free money tree so they can afford all of that...Night stages.
No pace notes on the RAC/network Q/whatever its called these days.
Run proper stages.
- shrug*
DJRC said:
- shrug*
It might seem a Chicken and Egg situation. But really it's a "Build it and they will come".
Sponsors sponsor things people are interested in. Make it interesting and the money will arrive afterwards.
The teams always complain about cost whenever changes are suggested. Yet, when the new car regs were being discussed they had the opportunity to make them really affordable – and chose not to.
The Manufacturers are in to sell more cars – so, they need maximum exposure & publicity. Which is were the identikit ‘one size fits all’ WRC event falls down. It might work in Germany, Portugal etc but it’s not working here in the UK. Not enough of the casual fans are being exposed to the sport – and probably more importantly, the sport isn’t getting any mainstream coverage.
The Manufacturers are in to sell more cars – so, they need maximum exposure & publicity. Which is were the identikit ‘one size fits all’ WRC event falls down. It might work in Germany, Portugal etc but it’s not working here in the UK. Not enough of the casual fans are being exposed to the sport – and probably more importantly, the sport isn’t getting any mainstream coverage.
Actually, the FIA's latest rules might make things easier.
They've effectively revived Group A rules, now called Group R. 3500 roadgoing examples must be built if you want to rally it.
This should make rallying cheaper, as in order for the manufacturers to justify it, the cars will have to be relatively cheap for them to make. The teams then have to use cars very similar to ones you can buy, which also adds showroom appeal too.
Within this, there are various groups - R1 through to R5 depending on displacement and power. At the top is RGT - a special class for sports cars competing in asphalt rallies, for which there are very little rules. This could be VERY exciting, given that competitors include Porsche, Lotus and Aston Martin. Definite shades of Group B and the challenge of winning an asphalt rally in an RGT car could draw in some of the world's top drivers.
So then I'd do this: merge WRC and IRC. WRC has no TV coverage, IRC lacks star drivers. The rules are forcing their car specifications closer together anyway.
Then, look at the main motorsport-watching countries in the world and put rallies in them. Given Ken Block's efforts, I see no reason why we couldn't include the USA in that list too. However, we need a mixture of challenges - asphalt, gravel, sand, ice, snow, forest tracks - the lot. We need night rallies, and we also need the Safari Rally as a kind of ultimate challenge.
At the moment, the IRC has coverage on Eurosport. This is OK but not enough people have Eurosport. It needs to get back on Freeview, and given the popularity and effectiveness of ITV4's 'full day of motorsport' approach with the BTCC, I reckon they could do something similar with rallying. A big show with all the classes and all the action. This is the advantage of multi-channel TV stations - it's not going to get in the way of Coronation Street and Downton Abbey, and yet the BTCC is the UK's most-watched motorsport series with the exception of Formula One - one suspects, partly because of this blanket coverage.
They've effectively revived Group A rules, now called Group R. 3500 roadgoing examples must be built if you want to rally it.
This should make rallying cheaper, as in order for the manufacturers to justify it, the cars will have to be relatively cheap for them to make. The teams then have to use cars very similar to ones you can buy, which also adds showroom appeal too.
Within this, there are various groups - R1 through to R5 depending on displacement and power. At the top is RGT - a special class for sports cars competing in asphalt rallies, for which there are very little rules. This could be VERY exciting, given that competitors include Porsche, Lotus and Aston Martin. Definite shades of Group B and the challenge of winning an asphalt rally in an RGT car could draw in some of the world's top drivers.
So then I'd do this: merge WRC and IRC. WRC has no TV coverage, IRC lacks star drivers. The rules are forcing their car specifications closer together anyway.
Then, look at the main motorsport-watching countries in the world and put rallies in them. Given Ken Block's efforts, I see no reason why we couldn't include the USA in that list too. However, we need a mixture of challenges - asphalt, gravel, sand, ice, snow, forest tracks - the lot. We need night rallies, and we also need the Safari Rally as a kind of ultimate challenge.
At the moment, the IRC has coverage on Eurosport. This is OK but not enough people have Eurosport. It needs to get back on Freeview, and given the popularity and effectiveness of ITV4's 'full day of motorsport' approach with the BTCC, I reckon they could do something similar with rallying. A big show with all the classes and all the action. This is the advantage of multi-channel TV stations - it's not going to get in the way of Coronation Street and Downton Abbey, and yet the BTCC is the UK's most-watched motorsport series with the exception of Formula One - one suspects, partly because of this blanket coverage.
ArnageWRC said:
The IRC will be no more after this year. Eurosport will now promote the ERC for the next 10 years, using the new R5 cars (S2000 & 1.6T S2000's). This will be one level down from the WRC, and hopefully will be a stepping stone for youngsters.
So what's happening? Is the IRC becoming the ERC then?Given the expense of building a WRC car I'm surprised they don't just have the top guys in R5s too, it's not like they're going to be significantly faster, and people come to watch drivers of considerable skill hurl around cars of a type they can buy in a showroom.
So I'd latch most of the WRC onto the ERC as a kind of top class, given that interest is largely European. Put rounds in the USA, Australia and Africa too, but make the focus European.
Also, the IRC/ERC includes such blue riband events as the Targa Florio, Tour de Corse and Circuit of Ireland. These are big-draw events with massive heritage. It'd be great to see the WRC cars take them on.
I'd also like (and this is a big open plea to the UK promoters) two different UK rallies. Rally GB might as well be called Rally Wales these days, and there's nothing wrong with that, but how about having a completely different rally centred on Grizedale and Kielder? Call it Rally North West or something.
ChrisJ. said:
Endurance endurance endurance
Yep and so it's an adventure, not a couple of day stage events run back to back.Make it so there is an element of vehicle preservation required.
Personally I'd get rid of pace notes, but then it does even things out as somebody will always be on home turf.
Yes, basically the IRC will be incorporated into the ERC. Apart from that, there isn't a great deal of information. There are some fantastic events that could & should be included. This years IRC wasn't up to the mark. Far too many 'non descript' East European events with poor entries.
They could have Ypres, Zlin, Sanremo, Corsica, Ireland, Arctic, Valais, Cyprus, and if the funding/sponsor is found, Scotland.
They could have Ypres, Zlin, Sanremo, Corsica, Ireland, Arctic, Valais, Cyprus, and if the funding/sponsor is found, Scotland.
Fantuzzi said:
From a personal point, I have never cared for rallying much at all, mainly due to the rather ordinary cars used. While I understand that is rather the point, seeing more sporting cars as a base would attract me moreso, although I understand this is a rather old comment on rallying as is - 'make em RWD, add Ferraris Porsche' ect ect.
Thats not to say that I would make rallying a GT comp, rather add another category. Also rather than 'super cars' Id like to see more gt86, 370z, mid range coupes used.
Eh ? Not sure how far back your knowledge of rallying goes but let me see- Stratos, 911, Escort Mk2 (if you havent seen and heard one of these in full cry you have not lived), a host of bonkers Gp B cars, Imprezas , Evos etc. At national level (forget all the WRC crap ) you can still see and hear amazing cars in fantastic surroundings. But like all motor sport , if you want to know what it is like it is not about watching telly it is about being there live. Thats not to say that I would make rallying a GT comp, rather add another category. Also rather than 'super cars' Id like to see more gt86, 370z, mid range coupes used.
Fantuzzi said:
From a personal point, I have never cared for rallying much at all, mainly due to the rather ordinary cars used.
This is a big issue for the general public as far as I see it, there's no 'Halo' series like there is with F1, where things are completely non-relevant to roadcars but get the spectators because of that.Rallying needs to bring back massive arches, big wings and extreme looking cars to get the general public interested again.
So there I am standing in Kielder Forest, in 6 inches of snow at 2 am, with 100's of other idiots, having hired a 1.6 sierra with 4 other students and driven up in the dark. We have watched the group B cars , the mk2 escorts, the lone capri, the and now are watching the clubmen in thier standard 1275 Mg metros and mantas and mk3 escorts and mk2 astra gte's, before we will thrash over to grisdale to watch the same cars blast through as the sun comes up. We've already been to Weston Park on Sunday, and watched and the south wales stages. We might see the bloke from the local garage in his Rear engineed skkoda, if he hasn't crashed. My parents have strict instructions to video the coverage on FREE telly, which I will watch in the Christmas holidays.
What is wrong with rallying ? It's not on telly. It's not advertised, anywhere. Nobody I know does it, and I forgot it was a sport.
What is wrong with rallying ? It's not on telly. It's not advertised, anywhere. Nobody I know does it, and I forgot it was a sport.
New POD said:
So there I am standing in Kielder Forest, in 6 inches of snow at 2 am, with 100's of other idiots, having hired a 1.6 sierra with 4 other students and driven up in the dark. We have watched the group B cars , the mk2 escorts, the lone capri, the and now are watching the clubmen in thier standard 1275 Mg metros and mantas and mk3 escorts and mk2 astra gte's, before we will thrash over to grisdale to watch the same cars blast through as the sun comes up. We've already been to Weston Park on Sunday, and watched and the south wales stages. We might see the bloke from the local garage in his Rear engineed skkoda, if he hasn't crashed. My parents have strict instructions to video the coverage on FREE telly, which I will watch in the Christmas holidays.
What is wrong with rallying ? It's not on telly. It's not advertised, anywhere. Nobody I know does it, and I forgot it was a sport.
So far as I can tell it's a victim of a mixture of competing series, cars getting too expensive for most manufacturers to build, and the company that did have the rights to the WRC TV screenings making some monumental cock-ups, losing money and going bust.What is wrong with rallying ? It's not on telly. It's not advertised, anywhere. Nobody I know does it, and I forgot it was a sport.
I see absolutely no reason why it couldn't be as big a spectator/TV motor sport as the BTCC.
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