The Official Japanese GP Thread 2012 ***SPOILERS***

[Gizmoish]

MGJohn said:

When A Senna said or wrote that you are NOT a racer if you never seize every opportunity to go for a gap it was admired.

The point being that there wasn't a gap in front of Grosjean. There was a car. With a jawbone in it.

[TheHeretic]

MGJohn said:

When A Senna said or wrote that you are NOT a racer if you never seize every opportunity to go for a gap it was admired. Not by me I might add. Driving blind in the spray of a car in front or worse and taking both or more out I never will find admirable. Several drivers in the past have done just that and they were accused only of being ... racers.

That quote was directly after punting Prost of in Japan.

[RichB]

MGJohn said:

Times change and no two scenarios are ever the same but, in the past...

Why are you desperate to stir up a (non) argument? Just report on the pre-race odds and who could have won what if they'd have put a bet on the 2:45 at 1:15. It's more your style.

[MGJohn]

TheHeretic said:

MGJohn said:

When A Senna said or wrote that you are NOT a racer if you never seize every opportunity to go for a gap it was admired. Not by me I might add. Driving blind in the spray of a car in front or worse and taking both or more out I never will find admirable. Several drivers in the past have done just that and they were accused only of being ... racers.

That quote was directly after punting Prost of in Japan.

... and others.

The "there wasn't a gap comment". Over the years many probably most drivers are guilty of that at some stage. Grosjean is maybe more frequently guilty but, in the past, these things were passed over as racing incidents all too frequently which i found very annoying. They are now seen as driver errors and misjudgements as they should have been in the past.

Standards have changed and rightly so.

Funny how the near incessant negative attention has moved its focus from Maldonado onto Grosjean recently...

EDIT to add @ 10:43 :~

RichB said:

MGJohn said:

Times change and no two scenarios are ever the same but, in the past...

Why are you desperate to stir up a (non) argument? Just report on the pre-race odds and who could have won what if they'd have put a bet on the 2:45 at 1:15. It's more your style.

My desperate days are long since past...

[Marf]

MGJohn said:

Funny how the near incessant negative attention has moved its focus from Maldonado onto Grosjean recently...

Not sure "funny" is the right way to describe it. Maldonado seems to have sorted himself out and is no longer taking people out while Grosjean continues to make a fool of himself on the circuit. As such the transferrance of negative attention seems entirely justified.

[TheHeretic]

F1 needs a villain.

[MGJohn]

Marf said:

MGJohn said:

Funny how the near incessant negative attention has moved its focus from Maldonado onto Grosjean recently...

Not sure "funny" is the right way to describe it. Maldonado seems to have sorted himself out and is no longer taking people out while Grosjean continues to make a fool of himself on the circuit

True ... but, worth repeating..

One man's fool is another's racer.
.

[Marf]

MGJohn said:

Marf said:

MGJohn said:

Funny how the near incessant negative attention has moved its focus from Maldonado onto Grosjean recently...

Not sure "funny" is the right way to describe it. Maldonado seems to have sorted himself out and is no longer taking people out while Grosjean continues to make a fool of himself on the circuit

Worth repeating..

One man's fool is another's racer.
.

OK lets examine fool vs racer. Is anyone, absolutely anyone on here or within F1 circles asserting that Grosjean's actions are those of a "racer"? The criticism of him seems pretty objective and universal.

[RichB]

MGJohn said:

Funny how the near incessant negative attention has moved its focus from Maldonado onto Grosjean recently...

Not really, perhaps Maldo' has the ability to learn from his mistakes while Grosjean hasn't.

[MGJohn]

TheHeretic said:

F1 needs a villain.

Yeah Dick Dastardly like Herr Schumacher the older... ~ Better still, ideally a swarthy type with 'eyebrows' ...

Marf said:

OK lets examine fool vs racer. Is anyone, absolutely anyone on here or within F1 circles asserting that Grosjean's actions are those of a "racer"? The criticism of him seems pretty objective and universal.

Opinions and value evolve and change, even on PH.

It did not used to be like that.
.

[RichB]

MGJohn said:

It did not used to be like that.

What, you mean like back when it was all fields 'round here?

[Marf]

MGJohn said:

Marf said:

OK lets examine fool vs racer. Is anyone, absolutely anyone on here or within F1 circles asserting that Grosjean's actions are those of a "racer"? The criticism of him seems pretty objective and universal.

Opinions and value evolve and change, even on PH.

OK But right now, in this specific instance, is anyone saying that Grosjean's actions are those of a racer? Or are they unanimous in saying he needs to sort himself out?

Straight question, simple yes no answer required

"Yes he needs to sort himself out."

"No, he's a racer leave him alone."

[Gizmoish]

I wonder whether the FIA would use Yuji Ide as a precedent and remove his superlicence?

[MGJohn]

Marf said:

MGJohn said:

Marf said:

OK lets examine fool vs racer. Is anyone, absolutely anyone on here or within F1 circles asserting that Grosjean's actions are those of a "racer"? The criticism of him seems pretty objective and universal.

Opinions and value evolve and change, even on PH.

OK But right now, in this specific instance, is anyone saying that Grosjean's actions are those of a racer? Or are they unanimous in saying he needs to sort himself out?

Straight question, simple yes no answer required

"Yes he needs to sort himself out."

"No, he's a racer leave him alone."

No doubt in my mind... a simple Yes and second thoughts.. No... that covers it ...

[Marf]

Fair enough John, no one will think worse of you for answering honestly that he's a liability but if you feel the need to be evasive under a humourous guise then I'll let it drop whilst understanding that you do in fact agree even if you don't have the chutzpah to say it straight.

[MGJohn]

RichB said:

MGJohn said:

It did not used to be like that.

What, you mean like back when it was all fields 'round here?

Hey.. too right ... you're not as .....

..... and you could do 100mph+ on many UK roads all quite legally.

[MGJohn]

Marf said:

Fair enough John, no one will think worse of you for answering honestly that he's a liability but if you feel the need to be evasive under a humourous guise then I'll let it drop whilst understanding that you do in fact agree even if you don't have the chutzpah to say it straight.

Who we talking about now? Hamilton the former or Maldonado and Grosjean the ongoing ...

Sod it, this fence is uncomfortable ... my jury is still out reserving judgement and my old brain hurts. On a good day I can line up my two remaining grey cells and fire them up on all twelve ...

So, what's the opinion about today's event ?

Bore-fest or :~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQyUKnCf0YY

Bit of both ... this bluddy fence is still uncomfortable.

[Marf]

[MGJohn]

Marf said:

Concentration not your strong suit?

WAKE UP!

[Marf]

Is someone talking? All I can hear is the sound of sidestepping. Maybe there are crabs in the room.

Anyway, I'm off.

Roll on Korea.