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davepoth

22,643 posts

79 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Mermaid said:
Good to see that. Not confident he will repeat this though.
I'm not so sure. It's all a head game, and he had a pretty tough time of it, what with that heartbreaking loss of the championship and nearly dying and all. I really hope he can do well again.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

135 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
davepoth said:
Watching the interviews now. Massa looks so happy. I really hope that kicks his losing streak.
yes He was beaming.

SeeFive

3,911 posts

113 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
davepoth said:
Mermaid said:
Good to see that. Not confident he will repeat this though.
I'm not so sure. It's all a head game, and he had a pretty tough time of it, what with that heartbreaking loss of the championship and nearly dying and all. I really hope he can do well again.
IMO, Felipe has cleaned up his act in a lot of areas this seaason. He is no longer defending lost causes, causing overtaking drivers to have no option but to collide with him or leave the circuit - with them taking the inevitable trip to the stewards as the overtaking driver tends to do these days.

And his speed is improving. He is getting back to where he was earlier in his career, very slightly above journeyman class (yeah, I know, I hear you - "last corner Brazil 2008" etc, but it doesn't cut it with me as he has been around too long in a competitive car to only have one shot at it).

But it was good to see him rewarded today for a good, clean and quick drive for the first time in a long time. I was almost as happy for him as he appeared to be in his interviews. Nice job, I hope that, and his recent improvement in form helps him keep his seat.

dtrump

1,493 posts

71 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
MGJohn said:
On another aspect, did Webber check his speed ( bit sideways ?? ) immediately before Grosjean made contact ?
Edited by MGJohn on Sunday 7th October 16:28
webber slowed...he went in too hot.....frenchy got it bang on......and ran into him

awkward...but I read as a racing incident

webber looks to be the one me who messed up the most

all imo

Scuffers

12,702 posts

154 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
if you run up the arse of the car in front, it's your fault, period
Advertisement

dtrump

1,493 posts

71 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Scuffers said:
if you run up the arse of the car in front, it's your fault, period
true but 1st corner is a bit different

davepoth

22,643 posts

79 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
dtrump said:
true but 1st corner is a bit different
Is it though? Webber can only deal with what he can see. He has to assume that the guy behind is doing the same.

fatboy69

5,676 posts

67 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Watching the Sky GP highlights.

They show Kimi having a spin in qualifying. Then they show his answers to some extremely stupid questions.

1) What happened? (having just shown the spin). Kimi - I spun.

2) You caused some problems for the others. KImi - I don't care.

I never liked him before this season. Now I do. Genius. Doesn't say much. His answers however say a hell of a lot.

CiderwithCerbie

1,420 posts

147 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
fatboy69 said:
Watching the Sky GP highlights.

They show Kimi having a spin in qualifying. Then they show his answers to some extremely stupid questions.

1) What happened? (having just shown the spin). Kimi - I spun.

2) You caused some problems for the others. KImi - I don't care.

I never liked him before this season. Now I do. Genius. Doesn't say much. His answers however say a hell of a lot.
Well he's consistent in interviews.
PS How did he cause trouble for others? Brundel picked it at the first replay that the collision that forced Alonso out was entirely his own fault having pushed Kimi on the grass. Kimi just clipped the Ferrari's back tyre whie catching the Lotus' rear-end stepping out after doing some lawn-mowing. Neither Alonso nor the stewards did anything against the Finn as it was obvious who was the cause. It also damaged the Lotus' front-wing.

All that having been said Kimi seemed dis-interested in racing as he did in Singapore. Apart from showing Perez that the inside line at turn one is probably preferable! This season his only real achievement has been to finish marginally above where he started from every Sunday and accumulate points from every race. Saturdays have usually been fairly mediocre to below average. Either the car really isn't as good as it should be or Kimi's not really trying,or he has lost 0.2-0.5s/lap during his F1 sabbatical. Though a fan I am fairly concerned that it is the latter, and Stewart saying he thinks Lotus should have won a couple by now leads me to believe he thinks the same.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

135 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
CiderwithCerbie said:
Well he's consistent in interviews.
PS How did he cause trouble for others? Brundel picked it at the first replay that the collision that forced Alonso out was entirely his own fault having pushed Kimi on the grass. Kimi just clipped the Ferrari's back tyre whie catching the Lotus' rear-end stepping out after doing some lawn-mowing. Neither Alonso nor the stewards did anything against the Finn as it was obvious who was the cause. It also damaged the Lotus' front-wing.

All that having been said Kimi seemed dis-interested in racing as he did in Singapore. Apart from showing Perez that the inside line at turn one is probably preferable! This season his only real achievement has been to finish marginally above where he started from every Sunday and accumulate points from every race. Saturdays have usually been fairly mediocre to below average. Either the car really isn't as good as it should be or Kimi's not really trying,or he has lost 0.2-0.5s/lap during his F1 sabbatical. Though a fan I am fairly concerned that it is the latter, and Stewart saying he thinks Lotus should have won a couple by now leads me to believe he thinks the same.
It was the spin in qualifying they were talking about.

fatboy69

5,676 posts

67 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
His spin in qualifying brought out the yellows so a couple of drivers had to back off thereby buggering up their qualifying runs.

KImi simply didn't give a toss!!!! His whole attitude showed he wasn't in the slightest bit bothered about it. I laughed at his response.


dtrump

1,493 posts

71 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
davepoth said:
Is it though? Webber can only deal with what he can see. He has to assume that the guy behind is doing the same.
yes but webbers mess up was nothing to do with what he could see, there was no barrier he just cocked up a little bit (I think)

frenchy didnt do particularly well, ......but I find it very harsh that the view is that he is an idiot and is solely to blame

from what i can see he has fairly massive speed and and goes for gap

something Asenna is worshipped for

there is a fine line I know

Mr_Thyroid

941 posts

107 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Surprised Massa didn't get a penalty for a jump start. I thought they had sensors to pick up the slightest movement. He was definitely creeping forward as the lights went out -- see 1:38:30 on iplayer.

Jasandjules

49,255 posts

109 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Well it was a race that I thought was going to be boring as hell and it was at least half interesting.

Am I the only one who thought Perez said "watch this Hamilton", just before sliding off........


CiderwithCerbie

1,420 posts

147 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
TheHeretic said:
It was the spin in qualifying they were talking about.
OK, I suppose I was reacting a bit to Benson's report of the first corner action in which he appears to blame Kimi for Alsonso's demise, when it is clear that The Spaniard was the architect of his own downfall. It could just be one of the sub-editors shortening the piece, but it looks like lazy journalism to me.

Any views on the questions I have raised about Kimi's overall performance this year??

MGJohn

7,632 posts

63 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Interested to observe that others saw Webber's car "stance" at that precise moment the same way as I did.

There was a time when I was a fan of the flying Finn... Raikkonen. Not now. Funny sometimes but, BAD attitude.

SeeFive

3,911 posts

113 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
CiderwithCerbie said:
Any views on the questions I have raised about Kimi's overall performance this year??
Tend to agree with you. Kimi hasn't exceeded my expectations, but then again, they were not that high anyway given his final year at Ferrari compared to previous years' levels of commitment. IMO, once you start to behave in a way that obviously asks questions of your commitment, and lose the hunger in any competitive sport, it rarely returns at full strength for extended periods.

Probably why your favourite 7 times WDC has not done so well this time around (or maybe it was the tyres / bargeboards / FIA etc) wink

Whoops, oh no, what have I said.

Switches off computer and heads upstairs with tail between legs.

LaurasOtherHalf

7,663 posts

76 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Scuffers said:
if you run up the arse of the car in front, it's your fault, period
Not if your names kimi

davepoth

22,643 posts

79 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
CiderwithCerbie said:
Any views on the questions I have raised about Kimi's overall performance this year??
I think you're wrong. biggrin

Seriously though, he's third in the championship in a car that hasn't yet looked like a real race winner (it's there or thereabouts certainly, but it's never looked like a dead cert); his team mate is 108 points behind him, although admittedly he's not raced the full season.

I'd say he is outperforming the car, possibly as much as Alonso, but his car is nowhere near as good. He's plugging away quietly and staying out of trouble. All it's going to take is one race where he ends up at the front with Alonso and Vettel a bit further back and he'll be right in the championship fight. I've got a feeling he'll run well in Austin.

CiderwithCerbie

1,420 posts

147 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
SeeFive said:
Tend to agree with you. Kimi hasn't exceeded my expectations, but then again, they were not that high anyway given his final year at Ferrari compared to previous years' levels of commitment. IMO, once you start to behave in a way that obviously asks questions of your commitment, and lose the hunger in any competitive sport, it rarely returns at full strength for extended periods.

Probably why your favourite 7 times WDC has not done so well this time around (or maybe it was the tyres / bargeboards / FIA etc) wink

Whoops, oh no, what have I said.

Switches off computer and heads upstairs with tail between legs.
OK you are entirely to blame for this accident!

Grrrr, arrgghhhh @#**&^%! etc.

OK please read the below carefully - I think we are all guilty of not properly reading each others contributions.

Well you know (deep breath), now that MSC has shown a measure of contrition at his second retirement interview, I am almost over it. I spent some of the week-ends looking at other F1 fora on the net and almost exactly the same stuff we have typed into these threads, in the same proportions from different (ie not obviously PH) contributors is written everywhere. It's about a 70-30 split in favour of MSC with a hard core of detractors like me, Wannaengineonthebackaxle, Cosicave, JMC-1, & Mattitakke to be found on all the sites. Even the arguments go down exactly the same lines;

He's the great 7WDC holder, he's a cheat and a danger to others, so what Senna was a cheat, no he wasn't Prost was...., what about Ferrari Int. Assistance etc. etc.

I actually think Stewart (besides his own self-promotion) got it right, Schumacher is a great driver, but not the greatest (and not in my top 10) despite the Stats that will never be repeated. [Anyone else remember people saying in 2007/8 that LH would break all Schumacher's records??]

For me, I hate the way he behaved to others up to Hungary 2010, he (and others) ruined the sport 2001-4 and the leaks about what was going on 1994/5 at Benetton don't help his cause. He will always divide opinion and that will always detract from his legacy. 2009-12 was a failure, not entirely of his own making, but he certainly initially over-estimated where he would be in the pecking order. However, I do admire that he could say he probably learnt more this time around. Failure brings perspective and that is true for all of us.

As for Kimi, I am a little bit concerned that, 'Yes/No', 'I was having a st', 'I don't care' has morphed into 'I don't give a st'.
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