The Official Japanese GP Thread 2012 ***SPOILERS***

[Richard-G]

Pwig said:

Anyone know the tune that sky used in the into to the race?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc2MP1qylNA

AWOLnation 'sail'

[Dr Z]

I quite enjoyed this GP. Kamui! Kamui! Where were you all season? Would love to have seen him in the second Mclaren. If he'd shown some of this form earlier in the season, who knows? Brilliant drive by Vettel. The man is the best when he's out in front. I laughed when he put in the fast lap at the end with his race engineer asking him to be careful and he's about 20 secs clear of the next guy. I really loved the interview later on with the Beeb where he said that he ought to enjoy when the car is this good! Kudos!

Massa- wow, I hope he really kicks on from now. Much of this sport is psychological as much as the physical. TBH, I really enjoyed watching him race in the previous GP. He was really attacking those kerbs like his life depended on it. So much commitment. Really glad he has something to show for it this race.

Whoever wins the WDC this year from now on, will be a worthy Champion, for sure. `(there it is that phrase again!)

[Wanta996Gotta]

Paddy Lowe on wither they would have asked Jenson to let Lewis pass for the extra two points - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103234

[Jasandjules]

Dr Z said:

I laughed when he put in the fast lap at the end with his race engineer asking him to be careful and he's about 20 secs clear of the next guy. I really loved the interview later on with the Beeb where he said that he ought to enjoy when the car is this good! Kudos!

Yes he is great like that. I think there were several earlier messages too - basically they were saying "slow the f**k down", then he put in the next fastest lap.......

I remember a race before as well when he was out in front and the radio call "who has the fastest lap?" - Horner's reponse? "Don't even think about it"...

[HarryW]

Wanta996Gotta said:

Paddy Lowe on wither they would have asked Jenson to let Lewis pass for the extra two points - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103234

To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season.

[zac510]

Scuffers said:

like to think your wrong, but I would suggest it's Vettel's to lose now...

How can it be his to lose? He's not even in the lead!

[Scuffers]

zac510 said:

Scuffers said:

like to think your wrong, but I would suggest it's Vettel's to lose now...

How can it be his to lose? He's not even in the lead!

easy, Ferrari's pace compared to RB is laughable....

they have said themselves that their cars is not fast enough (wind tunnel issues?)

[CiderwithCerbie]

vonuber said:

What are you on about. I assume you mean Wehrmacht? What the hell as that got to do with F1?

Do I have to spell it out for you? (and before anyone else posts - that's ajoke at my own expense...)

Derek said Ferrari were a great team, SeeFive quoted from Fawlty Towers 'The Germans' about not mentioning the war and so...

All I was pointing out was that 'being a great team' and winning does not always stand up to more detailed scrutiny of what is going on behind the scenes or how the winning is achieved and at what cost.

[vonuber]

HarryW said:

To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season.

What if Kobi had made a mistake into the final chicane handing Button the podium?

[HarryW]

vonuber said:

HarryW said:

To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season.

What if Kobi had made a mistake into the final chicane handing Button the podium?

That is always possible, but it is not tactical thinking. It is and was a wing and a prayer thinking, a 'what if' scenario. You don't see many drop it on the last corner do you.
By all means let JB chase him down, as he did, but the better result for the team and driver titles was to let them finish the other way around. Balancing up the probabilities and likely outcome is part of the tactical thinking process, McL have proved again they are devoid in that area.
The bigger question I have is who is supposed to do the tactics, is it the Chief engineer, the Principle or do they have a tactician.

[MGJohn]

HarryW said:

vonuber said:

HarryW said:

To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season.

What if Kobi had made a mistake into the final chicane handing Button the podium?

That is always possible, but it is not tactical thinking. It is and was a wing and a prayer thinking, a 'what if' scenario. You don't see many drop it on the last corner do you.
By all means let JB chase him down, as he did, but the better result for the team and driver titles was to let them finish the other way around. Balancing up the probabilities and likely outcome is part of the tactical thinking process, McL have proved again they are devoid in that area.
The bigger question I have is who is supposed to do the tactics, is it the Chief engineer, the Principle or do they have a tactician.

20-20 Wisdom after the event. Until they ran out of laps, there was a chance for Button to recapture a podium spot. Despite the hype that the Mclarens have the faster car, both the two cars in front of Button who at the time was well clear of his team mate, would on performance be very difficult to pass on any track, let alone Suzuka. Even so, it was worth a try because earlier it was apparently decided by the team that Hamilton had no chance of catching and passing the cars in front whilst Button looked like that would have been possible. For a lap or two later it looked like it might work too.

All this from my armchair of course and thus not in possession of all the facts. It amazes me how so many teams when deciding when to pit their cars for fresh tyres, the drivers are called in at a time that means they will rejoin behind slower cars. Mclaren in recent seasons have really excelled at this although other teams have also occasionally done this but never as frequently as Mclaren seem to do.

[oyster]

HarryW said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

Paddy Lowe on wither they would have asked Jenson to let Lewis pass for the extra two points - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103234

To me the fact that the pit wall did not even consider JB relinquishing the spot with say half a lap to go, allowing LH an additional 2 points, at no detriment to the constructors points highlights the lack of tactical thinking the team has demonstrated all season.

The gap in points between HAM and BUT isn't big enough with 5 remaining races to do this.

Imagine the scenario should Button have a good run in the final 5 races of the season and end up losing the title by 1 point to Vettel or Alonso after having given up 4th place to Lewis in Japan.

Think back to 2010 - 2 races to go the championship looks like this:
ALO 231 pts
WEB 220 pts
VET 206 pts

So in the Brazilian GP, the Reb Bulls are leading comfortably with Alonso in 3rd place. By your logic, Vettel should have moved over* for Webber to take the win and an extra 7 points in the championship race against Alonso.

If Red Bull had done that, given the results at the final race in Abu Dhabi, then Red Bull would have LOST the drivers title.

• Obviously team orders were technically banned in 2010, but it didn't stop Ferrari and I'm sure RB could have swapped their drivers somehow.

[anonymous-user]

Wanta996Gotta said:

Paddy Lowe on wither they would have asked Jenson to let Lewis pass for the extra two points - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103234

"We gained in the drivers' championship and we didn't lose as much as we could have because it looked to me that Red Bull were on for a one-two."

He doesn't really mean gained does he?

Red Bull - 27 points
McLaren - 22 points
Ferrari - 18 points

Or is he saying McLaren are content with 2nd place?

[hotmelt]

oyster said:

The gap in points between HAM and BUT isn't big enough with 5 remaining races to do this.

Agree, and Lewis has been pretty clear he doesn't want team orders too, never crossed my mind that he should. Frankly I doubt Button would swap place with Lewis in the last race even if that was crucial for championship win. In fact he would not do that for sure, he first would not stand hamilton being champion.

[FloppyRaccoon]

RenOHH said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

Paddy Lowe on wither they would have asked Jenson to let Lewis pass for the extra two points - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103234

"We gained in the drivers' championship and we didn't lose as much as we could have because it looked to me that Red Bull were on for a one-two."

He doesn't really mean gained does he?

Red Bull - 27 points
McLaren - 22 points
Ferrari - 18 points

Or is he saying McLaren are content with 2nd place?

They did gain in the drivers championship though. Alonso still leads, but both Mclaren drivers scored points so the gap is smaller. And they didn't lose as much as they could have because it looked like Red Bull had the pace for both cars to walk away from everyone, saved only by the 1st corner incident.

[anonymous-user]

FloppyRaccoon said:

They did gain in the drivers championship though. Alonso still leads, but both Mclaren drivers scored points so the gap is smaller. And they didn't lose as much as they could have because it looked like Red Bull had the pace for both cars to walk away from everyone, saved only by the 1st corner incident.

The gap isn't smaller. The gap is larger to Red Bull by 5 points.

[FloppyRaccoon]

RenOHH said:

FloppyRaccoon said:

They did gain in the drivers championship though. Alonso still leads, but both Mclaren drivers scored points so the gap is smaller. And they didn't lose as much as they could have because it looked like Red Bull had the pace for both cars to walk away from everyone, saved only by the 1st corner incident.

The gap isn't smaller. The gap is larger to Red Bull by 5 points.

Exactly. Read it again. In the DRIVERS championship they closed. In the CONSTRUCTORS championship they didn't lose as much as it looked like they might.

[TheHeretic]

hotmelt said:

Agree, and Lewis has been pretty clear he doesn't want team orders too, never crossed my mind that he should. Frankly I doubt Button would swap place with Lewis in the last race even if that was crucial for championship win. In fact he would not do that for sure, he first would not stand hamilton being champion.

Based on what?

[anonymous-user]

FloppyRaccoon said:

Exactly. Read it again. In the DRIVERS championship they closed. In the CONSTRUCTORS championship they didn't lose as much as it looked like they might.

Woops, sorry. Don't know how I missed that

[andyps]

hotmelt said:

Agree, and Lewis has been pretty clear he doesn't want team orders too, never crossed my mind that he should. Frankly I doubt Button would swap place with Lewis in the last race even if that was crucial for championship win. In fact he would not do that for sure, he first would not stand hamilton being champion.

I don't agree with you, but if you have insider evidence it would be interesting. He wouldn't give up his own championship for any other driver, but if out of contention himself I suspect he would do what was right for the team and gaining the world drivers championship for the team, even a driver who is leaving, would be very beneficial.