Discussion
joewilliams said:
He's quick, but has made a few relatively innocuous mistakes which have had large consequences for other drivers.
He's driving no worse, imo, than vettel in parts of 09 and 10.
It would be a real shame to lose him.
He is not that quick, just that Lotus is very good, and teamate came back from retirement(so not proper gauge of speed).He's driving no worse, imo, than vettel in parts of 09 and 10.
It would be a real shame to lose him.
hotmelt said:
He is not that quick, just that Lotus is very good, and teamate came back from retirement(so not proper gauge of speed).
This is kimi raikkonnen who is currently 3rd in the drivers championship (ahead of both McLarens) so if grosjean can consistently out-qualify him it shows he has raw pace. He just needs someone else to drive the first lap/few corners for him 'cause he seems to struggle there.It's amazing the difference between how people perceive Grosjean and Maldonado on here. Maldonado looks like he has finally worked on his little issues, and has shown this in the last few races. However, to most on here he should be banned for life.
Grosjean keeps hitting people, intentionally or not. However he gets a free pass.
Most odd.
Grosjean keeps hitting people, intentionally or not. However he gets a free pass.
Most odd.
I feel sorry for him, in the BBC show, he was clearly pretty upset.
Hes made mistakes, but hes not a pastor, hes not a btcc driver in that he is too agressive, rather that he made a mistake and misjudged Webbers speed.
Apart from Spa, most have been racing incidents, and as others have said its only the amount that really makes you stop and look, most in my view were very much racing incidents rather than crashes caused by him being careless or reckless. I cant think of (although I may be wrong) any comment on his crashes previous to Spa, from Coultard or the like that seemed to suggest he has been in the wrong, rather alot of 'Bad luck Grosjean' remarks.
I thought it was interesting that he said the crash was caused because he was watching the Sauber so intently to his left that Webbers speed caught him out. Overthinking due to pressure seems to be taking its toll.
Im sure Grosjean might be loosing a few places next week on purpose, dropping back and letting others take the posistions in the first lap, as hes bloody quick I think he can afford to let a few places go rather than even risk an incident at this stage.
Coultard made a mistake when Kimi hit Alonso, jumped straight to Grosjean as the lotus, he needs to just shake the reputation this year and I think he'll be back in 2013 and we will all forget about this.
Hes made mistakes, but hes not a pastor, hes not a btcc driver in that he is too agressive, rather that he made a mistake and misjudged Webbers speed.
Apart from Spa, most have been racing incidents, and as others have said its only the amount that really makes you stop and look, most in my view were very much racing incidents rather than crashes caused by him being careless or reckless. I cant think of (although I may be wrong) any comment on his crashes previous to Spa, from Coultard or the like that seemed to suggest he has been in the wrong, rather alot of 'Bad luck Grosjean' remarks.
I thought it was interesting that he said the crash was caused because he was watching the Sauber so intently to his left that Webbers speed caught him out. Overthinking due to pressure seems to be taking its toll.
Im sure Grosjean might be loosing a few places next week on purpose, dropping back and letting others take the posistions in the first lap, as hes bloody quick I think he can afford to let a few places go rather than even risk an incident at this stage.
Coultard made a mistake when Kimi hit Alonso, jumped straight to Grosjean as the lotus, he needs to just shake the reputation this year and I think he'll be back in 2013 and we will all forget about this.
vonuber said:
It's amazing the difference between how people perceive Grosjean and Maldonado on here. Maldonado looks like he has finally worked on his little issues, and has shown this in the last few races. However, to most on here he should be banned for life.
Grosjean keeps hitting people, intentionally or not. However he gets a free pass.
Most odd.
To me, Maldonado is causing accidents on purpose a lot of the time. Groejean is 'clumsy' I'm sure Maldonado could avoid alot of accidents if he chose to, Grosjean to me makes mistakes but doesn't plan to take people out.Grosjean keeps hitting people, intentionally or not. However he gets a free pass.
Most odd.
Anyway it will be interesting to see over the coming years if Grosjean can learn to do lap 1 ok or if Maldonardos funding will dry up.
decadence said:
The incident with Weber was pure touring car style, he just kept his foot in ramming Weber out of his way ! Such a shame as he is good, but needs to have a year out, mainly to take the microscope off him.
It was bad but not BTCC style! Wasn't an intentional punt and I don't think he was even trying to pass Webber or kept his foot in once they touched 
Looked to me that he just lost 'track' of Webber and the line their respective cars were taking in the bend and collided with him as his focus was on the Sauber trying to go round his outside. Webber did look very slow on the apex compared to Grosjean - but they were both clearly taking a different line round the corner. The penalty fit the crime. Unfornately it comes after a series of similar and worse crimes!
vonuber said:
It's amazing the difference between how people perceive Grosjean and Maldonado on here. Maldonado looks like he has finally worked on his little issues, and has shown this in the last few races. However, to most on here he should be banned for life.
Grosjean keeps hitting people, intentionally or not. However he gets a free pass.
Most odd.
Probably to do with how they come across on camera generally and after the incidents. Righty or wrongly Maldonado seems like a right cock, Grosjean less so Grosjean keeps hitting people, intentionally or not. However he gets a free pass.
Most odd.
What i saw, al be it with early morning eyes, was Grojean running into Webber, then just thinking "must keep driving" to basically shake Webbers car off of his so he could carry on with race.....its an instinct, but not a nice one. Its horrible to watch and shows a big disrespect to chap your doing it too. The fact its a Red Bull with one of the nicest F1 drivers around who is getting on a bit now, i'd imagine that's a vacant Red Bull seat that Grojean will not be getting any time....and i really believe the guy has the raw skills that he could of been a possible Webber replacement....
A tough call with Grosjean. It's relatively easy not to shunt from the front of the grid. Not so easy when you are a few rows back or in mid-pack, which is where he is a lot of the time.
There is also the fact that the absolute excitement (almost panic) of a race start takes a while to get used to. When you start on your own (e.g. hillclimb, time trial) the first notice you get that you maybe haven't quite got the adrenalin under control is the first corner or braking area - the familiar "oh s
t" moment, and you smoke a tyre or run wide in free space. That's not dissimilar from the front row start.
Starting mid-pack in a quick single seater is somewhat different - the first notice you get is the concertina effect coming at you lile a freight train, and nowhere to go as you have cars all around you.
But then again, if you are too chilled and come off the grid and lose half a dozen places every time, the team is not happy, and every driver knows that, fearing the consequences of a seeming lack of commitment.
It's a difficult balance for a guy who has already been ousted from his F1 seat before. I do not know too much about Grosjean and his background, but I assume that he was relatively tidy off the line in lower formulae. Perhaps the pressure of keeping a seat in F1 is a bit too much for him to control in the extreme situation of getting off the line.
I reckon that the team can help him a lot here by taking the pressure off him dropping places off the line for a couple of races. Maybe give him a less aggressive launch to let him know that he is only expected to *survive* the first few corners, not make up places and then go on to drive brilliantly after. After a couple of examples of that, the team will show that they have given him the space and strong commitment to him personally to learn to control his mind in an F1 car, and that experience should help calm him going forward.
It's a tough one. He is too fast to be out of a seat, and too accident prone in the first corners to keep in. If I was a team owner, I'd like to try to sort it out rather than throw him out, and would be talking to him and the engineers about cutting him some slack in the start procedures.
There is also the fact that the absolute excitement (almost panic) of a race start takes a while to get used to. When you start on your own (e.g. hillclimb, time trial) the first notice you get that you maybe haven't quite got the adrenalin under control is the first corner or braking area - the familiar "oh s
t" moment, and you smoke a tyre or run wide in free space. That's not dissimilar from the front row start. Starting mid-pack in a quick single seater is somewhat different - the first notice you get is the concertina effect coming at you lile a freight train, and nowhere to go as you have cars all around you.
But then again, if you are too chilled and come off the grid and lose half a dozen places every time, the team is not happy, and every driver knows that, fearing the consequences of a seeming lack of commitment.
It's a difficult balance for a guy who has already been ousted from his F1 seat before. I do not know too much about Grosjean and his background, but I assume that he was relatively tidy off the line in lower formulae. Perhaps the pressure of keeping a seat in F1 is a bit too much for him to control in the extreme situation of getting off the line.
I reckon that the team can help him a lot here by taking the pressure off him dropping places off the line for a couple of races. Maybe give him a less aggressive launch to let him know that he is only expected to *survive* the first few corners, not make up places and then go on to drive brilliantly after. After a couple of examples of that, the team will show that they have given him the space and strong commitment to him personally to learn to control his mind in an F1 car, and that experience should help calm him going forward.
It's a tough one. He is too fast to be out of a seat, and too accident prone in the first corners to keep in. If I was a team owner, I'd like to try to sort it out rather than throw him out, and would be talking to him and the engineers about cutting him some slack in the start procedures.
woof said:
I think he's a clumsy driver - he's had his chance (twice) now and don't think he has what he takes. He's had so many incidents. Give d’Ambrosio the seat (if he's not already signed to go to Caterham)
I see where you are coming from on that, but tend to disagree. Eric must have seen something beyond the clumsiness to give him the seat in the first place unless he is bringing untold riches to the team. So to simply re-assert that decision with the driver, and lighten the preesure on him would be a sensible move.
I don't see d'Ambrosio being as quick as Grosjean, which IMO is a bigger, career long challenge to solve than getting a quick driver's head in the right place for 20-30 seconds of a race.
He seemed genuinely reticent about the incident when i saw him interviewed briefly on sky.
I can understand Webbers comment of "nutcase" its happened a little to often now and i hope Grosjean apologised to Webber and was suitably humble when he did so.
I can understand Webbers comment of "nutcase" its happened a little to often now and i hope Grosjean apologised to Webber and was suitably humble when he did so.
Edited by E-B on Monday 8th October 10:36
I think in Grosjean we see the same temperament as Ayrton Senna, just like AS he is an 'early-on' the loud pedal and then deal with whatever the car gives you.
That ethos or driving style served AS very well, but the sport has changed and I'm not sure it will work so well 20-odd years after the original.
I liked the way AS went in hard and fast and I like the way, early in the season, you could see RG hit that pedal early and deal with the car.
Take RG out and we accept that there is no room for the Senna-style of driving in the sport and that is really not a good thing for the sport and in the end the sport is the thing.
He may not be 'a senna' but his style is right out of that mould and I like it, when he's not knocked himself out of the running he's been faster and more exciting than his WDC team-mate by a good margin.
To want him out or to call for that to happen is to call for homogeneity in the sport and that is euthanising the sport.
That ethos or driving style served AS very well, but the sport has changed and I'm not sure it will work so well 20-odd years after the original.
I liked the way AS went in hard and fast and I like the way, early in the season, you could see RG hit that pedal early and deal with the car.
Take RG out and we accept that there is no room for the Senna-style of driving in the sport and that is really not a good thing for the sport and in the end the sport is the thing.
He may not be 'a senna' but his style is right out of that mould and I like it, when he's not knocked himself out of the running he's been faster and more exciting than his WDC team-mate by a good margin.
To want him out or to call for that to happen is to call for homogeneity in the sport and that is euthanising the sport.
SeeFive said:
A tough call with Grosjean. It's relatively easy not to shunt from the front of the grid. Not so easy when you are a few rows back or in mid-pack, which is where he is a lot of the time.
There is also the fact that the absolute excitement (almost panic) of a race start takes a while to get used to. When you start on your own (e.g. hillclimb, time trial) the first notice you get that you maybe haven't quite got the adrenalin under control is the first corner or braking area - the familiar "oh st" moment, and you smoke a tyre or run wide in free space. That's not dissimilar from the front row start.
Starting mid-pack in a quick single seater is somewhat different - the first notice you get is the concertina effect coming at you lile a freight train, and nowhere to go as you have cars all around you.
But then again, if you are too chilled and come off the grid and lose half a dozen places every time, the team is not happy, and every driver knows that, fearing the consequences of a seeming lack of commitment.
It's a difficult balance for a guy who has already been ousted from his F1 seat before. I do not know too much about Grosjean and his background, but I assume that he was relatively tidy off the line in lower formulae. Perhaps the pressure of keeping a seat in F1 is a bit too much for him to control in the extreme situation of getting off the line.
I reckon that the team can help him a lot here by taking the pressure off him dropping places off the line for a couple of races. Maybe give him a less aggressive launch to let him know that he is only expected to *survive* the first few corners, not make up places and then go on to drive brilliantly after. After a couple of examples of that, the team will show that they have given him the space and strong commitment to him personally to learn to control his mind in an F1 car, and that experience should help calm him going forward.
It's a tough one. He is too fast to be out of a seat, and too accident prone in the first corners to keep in. If I was a team owner, I'd like to try to sort it out rather than throw him out, and would be talking to him and the engineers about cutting him some slack in the start procedures.
good post...totally agreeThere is also the fact that the absolute excitement (almost panic) of a race start takes a while to get used to. When you start on your own (e.g. hillclimb, time trial) the first notice you get that you maybe haven't quite got the adrenalin under control is the first corner or braking area - the familiar "oh s
t" moment, and you smoke a tyre or run wide in free space. That's not dissimilar from the front row start. Starting mid-pack in a quick single seater is somewhat different - the first notice you get is the concertina effect coming at you lile a freight train, and nowhere to go as you have cars all around you.
But then again, if you are too chilled and come off the grid and lose half a dozen places every time, the team is not happy, and every driver knows that, fearing the consequences of a seeming lack of commitment.
It's a difficult balance for a guy who has already been ousted from his F1 seat before. I do not know too much about Grosjean and his background, but I assume that he was relatively tidy off the line in lower formulae. Perhaps the pressure of keeping a seat in F1 is a bit too much for him to control in the extreme situation of getting off the line.
I reckon that the team can help him a lot here by taking the pressure off him dropping places off the line for a couple of races. Maybe give him a less aggressive launch to let him know that he is only expected to *survive* the first few corners, not make up places and then go on to drive brilliantly after. After a couple of examples of that, the team will show that they have given him the space and strong commitment to him personally to learn to control his mind in an F1 car, and that experience should help calm him going forward.
It's a tough one. He is too fast to be out of a seat, and too accident prone in the first corners to keep in. If I was a team owner, I'd like to try to sort it out rather than throw him out, and would be talking to him and the engineers about cutting him some slack in the start procedures.
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