Grosjean

Author
Discussion

FWDRacer

3,564 posts

223 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Just indicated a supreme lack of personal focus and poor judgement again in Japan. He needs hauling over the coals - he wasn't mid grid... he had decent track position inside Perez, clear space ahead (you don't need the car length he was given) and he still ploughed into Webber like a boxfresh novice.

Webber was very controlled afterwards - I'd probably have had the guy by the throat with adrenalin/blood up.

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Far Cough said:
Erm ... Kobyashi was not so clever when he first came to F1. The learning curve is steep and look where he finished today. The past is quickly forgotten.

Will he be in F1 next year ? Probably not but maybe in 2014
hehe

Know someone who still calls him "Bashybashie".

Bill Carr

2,234 posts

233 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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He's a quick driver.

He risks attracting the same attention hat Riccardo Patrese did in '78.

SeeFive

8,280 posts

232 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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FWDRacer said:
Just indicated a supreme lack of personal focus and poor judgement again in Japan. He needs hauling over the coals - he wasn't mid grid... he had decent track position inside Perez, clear space ahead (you don't need the car length he was given) and he still ploughed into Webber like a boxfresh novice.

Webber was very controlled afterwards - I'd probably have had the guy by the throat with adrenalin/blood up.
Agree, this instance was a bad error given his track position at impact. However he is off the back of a lot of other more complex scenarios this season. There are also two mitigating circumstances for me, which combined go some way to understanding his error:

1) Due to his recent bad form off the line and ban, he says he was being super observant to the car on his left which IMO was the prime danger for a collision unless the car in front suddently slowed. Yes, an error not to keep all round sitaware, but I can see where he is coming from.
2) From Grosjean's in-car, Webber's car seemed to slow quite suddenly mid corner. It would be interesting to see both telemetries to see what Grosjean was dealing with in the split second before he hit Webber. Maybe that is why Webber was so much more laid back than you say you would have been - he perhaps knows that he accentuated the situation with his own error, but does not want to say so publically - potentially of course, I have no idea!

It's all ifs, buts and speculation from me now - if Webber hadn't slowed... if Grosjean had slammed them all on to avoid Webber suddenly slowing would he have drifted wide to the left, maybe collecting Perez - etc. Frankly, I don't think any of this went through his head, as you say, he was not watching Webber too closely, expecting him to carry on as normal.

One thing is certain, everyone will be leaning on him off the line for a while, 'cos he is gonna give space for the forseeable future if he has learned anything.

ady_GTi

325 posts

209 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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I see theres a video on the BBC with all his first lap incidents, looking back on them all i would say he could be blamed for maybe 2 of them? Alot of them seem to be cars hanging him out to dry or chopping his nose.

Would be a shame to lose him, quick guy when he stays out of trouble

FWDRacer

3,564 posts

223 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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SeeFive said:
One thing is certain, everyone will be leaning on him off the line for a while, 'cos he is gonna give space for the forseeable future if he has learned anything.
yes - everyone will capitalise on him driving like a jack-and-danny for the first few corners hehe

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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I'd be surprised if he doesn't get another race ban or fairly hefty fine.

As for next season - there's a huge amount of competition for race seats and a lot of talented drivers around many of whom come with a big pot of money. His team have a very fast car and have lost out on a fair number of points this season. This may impact their finishing place in the CC which might cost them millions.

On the other hand his team has a strong French connection and that may spur them to keep him if there isn't an appropriate French replacement in the wings.

The strength of feeling among other drivers seems to be stronger than it was regarding Maldonado (who seems to have improved himself) and LH in 2010.

RAClNG SNAKE

3,606 posts

231 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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ady_GTi said:
I see theres a video on the BBC with all his first lap incidents, looking back on them all i would say he could be blamed for maybe 2 of them? Alot of them seem to be cars hanging him out to dry or chopping his nose.
Exactly what I was thinking, the commentary by DC on those clips refer to racing incidents mostly too.

Nick1point9

3,917 posts

179 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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You have to remember that his manager is also his team principle, so it's unlikely he'll be dropped.

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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RAClNG SNAKE said:
ady_GTi said:
I see theres a video on the BBC with all his first lap incidents, looking back on them all i would say he could be blamed for maybe 2 of them? Alot of them seem to be cars hanging him out to dry or chopping his nose.
Exactly what I was thinking, the commentary by DC on those clips refer to racing incidents mostly too.
There's a point where a driver gets into situations that either are ascribed to bad luck or poor judgement.

I remember the season where LH had more than a few clashes with other drivers and the PH consensus was that he needed to calm down (excepting the bile-filled few who wanted him executing). I don't recall stewards banning him that season or punishing him as severely as RG was this weekend.

If you look at the reactions of Kimi to Lewis into turn 1 when Lewis came out of the pits they were both stunningly fast and sensible - if he'd tried to tough it out round the outside he'd have lost the place at best or run off track at worst. RG, in comparison, seems to make poor judgement calls consistently - either by not reacting to threats to be out of harms way or by defending lost causes.

As it is I think it's maybe the scale of the errors, Spa and this weekend, that has brought down so much criticism. That plus being French of course!

I happen to think Alonso overreacted to JB being on his right and caused his own demise on Sunday, poor judgement there, but the crucial difference is that he a) only wrecked his own race; b) doesn't do that very often.

SeeFive

8,280 posts

232 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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JB said:
McLaren driver Jenson Button had harsh words at Suzuka, saying: "Is it for Formula One to do something about it? Or should he just take a good look at himself and sort his s*** out, because that what he needs to do.

"We saw it a lot in (feeder series) GP2 with him. He'd either win or crash and it seems he has the same philosophy and he needs to change his views."
Source: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/motorhead-formu...

My first post on this said something along the lines of "Did Grosjean have a clean record prior to F1?". All my other comments have been based on yes to that.

In light of what JB is quoted as saying (which I assume is pretty accurate) I am leaning towards the firing squad boys point of view on here.


CoopR

957 posts

235 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Brundle said:
Former F1 driver and Sky commentator Martin Brundle added: "These things don't happen by coincidence.
I have some sympathy for Grosjean, certainly some of the crashes he gets blame for are not 100% his fault. But what Brundle said is spot on, how come many of the middle group manage to get though without incident yet he doesn't? Too many for it to be pure coincidence!

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Grosjean seems to have gone from hero to villain rather rapidly this season. I think F1 would be a lesser sport without some of these less predictable drivers in the grid. As long as your favourite driver is in front of them, It makes the starts much more interesting.

simonpeter

188 posts

158 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Congratulations to everyone on their thoughtful posts. Eurosport blogs have hung Grosjean out to dry. I agree with a good deal that has been written. Most of the incidents he has been involved in did not look as though he has been deliberately over aggressive, more a case of wrong place wrong time. Perhaps what has made things worse for a man in his first full season is that he has qualified very well against Raikkonen and so has been up with the quickest cars and drivers. Where any error will be in the full spotlight. Most rookies get to learn their craft well down the grid and mostly hidden from scrutiny. It`s a shame because the guy has very real pace. Hope he can survive this downturn, I`m sure he is a decent enough young man who desparately wants to impress. Just needs to iron out any desparation in his driving. There again he knows what happened to Petrov, Senna and Heidfeld.

bulla003

69 posts

169 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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What I think is that the 1 race ban grojean had for Monza was not enough - he should have been banned for more than the 1 race. Eiher he picks up his act or he should have his super-licence revoked. Its stupid he's just destroying other championship contenders bid to become the world championship.


Gene Vincent

4,002 posts

157 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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bulla003 said:
Its stupid he's just destroying other championship contenders bid to become the world championship.
He hasn't 'picked on' any particular contender, it's random, so taking out of the races having not completed his 'full set' of random accidents gives an unfair advantage for those he hasn't taken out so far! Which is even more unfair.

It's called racing, 24 blokes in fast cars all wanting to win or fluke a win to take a bit of glory into their future, I want them to fight hard, face adversity, there is no theatre no passion without the pathos of abject misery and unfettered joy otherwise...

Don't take any driver to your heart or to be your Ensign, for they are all faulted, the sport is the thing, the spectacle the utter madness of it all, I have enjoyed this years racing more than any other I can recall and reading this forum I'm not alone in that.

Wanta996Gotta

5,622 posts

206 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Eric Boullier reckons rivals are pushing Grosjean too hard - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103246

Fonz

361 posts

183 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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What do you think of the chances of someone running into the back of RG in Korea, two tight left handers after the start IIRC? I mean if he breaks a bit too early next time and catches someone out...

RAClNG SNAKE

3,606 posts

231 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Gaz. said:
I wouldn't say a villain, villains have malice and predetermined actions, Grosjean is just clumsy and doesn't think. He has the potential to be multiple WDC if he can sort out his spacial awareness.
Exactly, Maldonado has thrown his car at someone deliberately on more than one occasion and should have had a ban for that.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Gaz. said:
I wouldn't say a villain, villains have malice and predetermined actions, Grosjean is just clumsy and doesn't think. He has the potential to be multiple WDC if he can sort out his spacial awareness.
Now, just playing Devil's Advocate.

1. Alonso didn't notice where Kimi was so stuffed his car (and it could have been an awful accident)
2. Why did Webber take that corner so slowly? Did he miss a gear or what? He almost went backwards.