Discussion
I see that JYS has offered to give him some help...
FWIW most of these incidents aren't usually a one off mistake, i.e. Grosjean's fault per se, but he does seem to be right in the position at the end of the tail of these incidents and therefore looks like the one who's at fault.
I think I'm with most in thinking that the incident with Webber was a little odd, from the PoV that Webber seemed to slow or stall slightly mid-corner and I don't really think that Grosjean had anywhere to go...
It will be interesting to see what happens in the race this weekend.
FWIW most of these incidents aren't usually a one off mistake, i.e. Grosjean's fault per se, but he does seem to be right in the position at the end of the tail of these incidents and therefore looks like the one who's at fault.
I think I'm with most in thinking that the incident with Webber was a little odd, from the PoV that Webber seemed to slow or stall slightly mid-corner and I don't really think that Grosjean had anywhere to go...
It will be interesting to see what happens in the race this weekend.
I'm not sure he is as bad as the journo's are making out, until Spa he was just your normal slightly crazy F1 driver, not much different record of smashes to several others on the grid we've already mentioned.
Spa was a pretty poor chop and the ban deserved IMO- the issue is that coming off the back of that he went and did something almost as bad straight away! (perhaps he should have asked to start from the pit mor something)
If he'd had a perfect start at Suzuka the previous troubles would started to have dissappear, he's just pulled them up for everyones attention by shunting Grumpy off.
Its clear he is quick but I don't see how Lotus can afford the CF and points he's breaking/loosing each race, arguably he should have been finishing in the top 6-7 at least in most races, the car is quick (proven by Kimi) I'm tempted to say they'd score more with a one handed Pole driving :-)
Spa was a pretty poor chop and the ban deserved IMO- the issue is that coming off the back of that he went and did something almost as bad straight away! (perhaps he should have asked to start from the pit mor something)
If he'd had a perfect start at Suzuka the previous troubles would started to have dissappear, he's just pulled them up for everyones attention by shunting Grumpy off.
Its clear he is quick but I don't see how Lotus can afford the CF and points he's breaking/loosing each race, arguably he should have been finishing in the top 6-7 at least in most races, the car is quick (proven by Kimi) I'm tempted to say they'd score more with a one handed Pole driving :-)
Gaz. said:
el stovey said:
Grosjean seems to have gone from hero to villain rather rapidly this season. I think F1 would be a lesser sport without some of these less predictable drivers in the grid. As long as your favourite driver is in front of them, It makes the starts much more interesting.
I wouldn't say a villain, villains have malice and predetermined actions, Grosjean is just clumsy and doesn't think. He has the potential to be multiple WDC if he can sort out his spacial awareness.REALIST123 said:
Gaz. said:
el stovey said:
Grosjean seems to have gone from hero to villain rather rapidly this season. I think F1 would be a lesser sport without some of these less predictable drivers in the grid. As long as your favourite driver is in front of them, It makes the starts much more interesting.
I wouldn't say a villain, villains have malice and predetermined actions, Grosjean is just clumsy and doesn't think. He has the potential to be multiple WDC if he can sort out his spacial awareness.Alonso had a bit of a crash habit in 03/04. Tunnel at Monaco, Brake testing DC at the 'ring, not slowing down for yellows in Brazil and causing a monumental shunt.
Vettel hit Webber under a safety car in Japan in 07
They all learnt, and became three of the greats.
Look at his out and out raw pace! Any team should see that get him to settle down and he's a winner for sure.
I don't think ALL the crashes were all his fault and Webber seemed really slow compared to the other cars, I think alot of the drivers may be a tad envious of his skill and speed for what is a rookie of sorts. F1 needs new drivers, who want to win, they don't need anymore just happy to race drivers, like Barrichello when he was there, Trulli, with all this tyre nonsense it's great seeing a driver try his hardest to win.
Romain doesn't seem to have any malice on intent, he just needs to learn like Alonso has, you don't need to win every race to be on the cusp of a championship.
And as for Johnny Herbert "sack him, sack him, now" he's an idiot.
I don't think ALL the crashes were all his fault and Webber seemed really slow compared to the other cars, I think alot of the drivers may be a tad envious of his skill and speed for what is a rookie of sorts. F1 needs new drivers, who want to win, they don't need anymore just happy to race drivers, like Barrichello when he was there, Trulli, with all this tyre nonsense it's great seeing a driver try his hardest to win.
Romain doesn't seem to have any malice on intent, he just needs to learn like Alonso has, you don't need to win every race to be on the cusp of a championship.
And as for Johnny Herbert "sack him, sack him, now" he's an idiot.
Redlake27 said:
REALIST123 said:
Gaz. said:
el stovey said:
Grosjean seems to have gone from hero to villain rather rapidly this season. I think F1 would be a lesser sport without some of these less predictable drivers in the grid. As long as your favourite driver is in front of them, It makes the starts much more interesting.
I wouldn't say a villain, villains have malice and predetermined actions, Grosjean is just clumsy and doesn't think. He has the potential to be multiple WDC if he can sort out his spacial awareness.Alonso had a bit of a crash habit in 03/04. Tunnel at Monaco, Brake testing DC at the 'ring, not slowing down for yellows in Brazil and causing a monumental shunt.
Vettel hit Webber under a safety car in Japan in 07
They all learnt, and became three of the greats.
We're not talking about one off errors. Gaz stated that he thinks RG is clumsy, etc. not that he has been, on occasion or whatever. He is......
Personally, I just think he's slightly out of his depth. I would bet money that he won't win 1 WDC let alone multiple ones.
Time will tell.
Had Grosjean been playing dodgems with the HRTs and Lotii at the back of the grid, we wouldn't even be discussing this. It's only because Hamilton, Alonso and Webber have been involved that Grosjean's a focus of attention.
A certain 7 times World Champion is a far bigger liability on the track, in my opinion.
Grosjean needs to sort out his starts, but comments by those in glass houses such as Webber should not be used to unduly paint Grosjean as some kind of lunatic.
A certain 7 times World Champion is a far bigger liability on the track, in my opinion.
Grosjean needs to sort out his starts, but comments by those in glass houses such as Webber should not be used to unduly paint Grosjean as some kind of lunatic.
10 Pence Short said:
Had Grosjean been playing dodgems with the HRTs and Lotii Caterhams at the back of the grid, we wouldn't even be discussing this. It's only because Hamilton, Alonso and Webber have been involved that Grosjean's a focus of attention.
A certain 7 times World Champion is a far bigger liability on the track, in my opinion.
Grosjean needs to sort out his starts, but comments by those in glass houses such as Webber should not be used to unduly paint Grosjean as some kind of lunatic.
He's in a Lotus...A certain 7 times World Champion is a far bigger liability on the track, in my opinion.
Grosjean needs to sort out his starts, but comments by those in glass houses such as Webber should not be used to unduly paint Grosjean as some kind of lunatic.
REALIST123 said:
You really believe those three are clumsy, thoughtless and lack special awareness then?
Absolutely not. Alonso, Vettel and Hakkinen went on to win many times. But in their early days, they did do some clumsy, thoughtless and spacially 'unaware' things. Give Grosjean time and another tough penalty, and he'll come goodThis piece from Motor Sport sums him up more eloquently than I can...
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/opinion/most-...
Edited by Redlake27 on Thursday 11th October 16:29
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