RE: Loeb wins ninth - and last - WRC title
Discussion
zac510 said:
DJRC said:
It worked too well. Id have tweaked the format personally...with the 4wd cars being pegged at a lower power rating whilst the rwd only boys could explore much more power. You would have kept the cars, but cut the speeds into the corners, but kept the spectacular on the exits of corners. It was the entry and carry speeds that made Gp B ludicrous for the times, combined with woeful spectator control.
Actually this technical evaluation is pretty short-sighted.A rally car pegged at a lower power level is exactly what the WRC cars are now.
You speculate that it would have the the speeds into the corners which may initially be the case but in time in reality when the power level is pegged then the cars can't make up time on each other along the straights. This means the only place they can be different is to maintain speed through corner entry and mid corner and in low speed corners in acceleration traction.
By regulation you've removed a variable and that in turn puts pressure on the drivers and car engineers to go faster in the areas of the car's performance that is not regulated (that is cornering, aerodynamics, tyres, etc).
Current WRC cars with their pegged power outputs are faster through corners than the Group B cars. I accept they might be slower along the straights but I'd have to check.
There was a similar engineering effect when the F1 cars moved to the highly regulated V8 engines that had less torque. However there's been the opposite effect in F1 in the last 2 year in regulation - the tyres, fuel level, DRS and KERS have introduced new variables where drivers and teams can make a difference and now the car speeds vary much more throughout the race. These details have been much underestimated by the public who focus on the tyres only.
So no, the technical explanation wasnt short sighted, I know pretty much exactly what it would do initially, whilst thereafter Id be interested to see where it went over a season.
PhillipM said:
Crow555 said:
Group B was banned for a reason,
Yes, crap crowd control.Until you get the drama back you will not get the manufacturers back and without more manufacturers you will not get big sponsors. Terminal decline, demonstrated by the declining audience.
DJRC said:
EDLT said:
Except nobody would enter because a group B car would be ridiculously expensive to develop, even before it was banned they were talking about how to replace it. The replacement was going to be Group S, essentially it would be a prototype series, Lancia even built a demo car.
4WD prototype rally cars with a power restriction (don't kid yourself about people bothering to enter something RWD) actually did exist, it just took another 15 or so years for them to turn up.
Here is what we ended up with...
No they wouldnt, no more so than any other forms of vehicles. The crucial, absolutely utterly crucial difference though is one thing...they would be spectacular. People watch for the spectacle. Thats it, end of, pure and simple, all day every day. The spectacle puts bums on seats and feet in the forest. Rallying has no spectacle. It has no USP. Thats why manufacturers dont give a toss about it at the moment.4WD prototype rally cars with a power restriction (don't kid yourself about people bothering to enter something RWD) actually did exist, it just took another 15 or so years for them to turn up.
Here is what we ended up with...
Give them the incentive back and throughout motorsports history, *every* time Manufacturers have pumped the money in. Take note of what I actually read aswell...I would have tweaked it. Not replicate it exactly. Lancia were engaged in an uber war with Pug and Ford and it was an unlimited free for all. Remove the free for all and you remove a large part of the costs.
Unless by spectacular you meant devastating speed, which is what the previous WRC cars had by the bucketload. They really were pretty close to your idea too, I assume the bits you'd tweak would be removing the need for road going versions and limitless development to cut costs (the ONLY way you'll get manufacturers back)
Anyway, manufacturers ARE coming back. VW next year, Hyundai in the late season + 2014 and MINI having another go at a full season. They just need to sort out the UK's TV coverage.
delays said:
I agree with the previous comments about not watching or following WRC because of his dominance.
Wondering aloud here - now Red Bull have the TV rights as of next year, will we see a Red Bull sponsored WTC role, effectively "pushing him" out of WRC to level the field and allow the sport to turn a new leaf?
I, probably like many others, would love to watch WRC, but can't! It had been a staple of my motorsport viewing until it disappeared off Dave. What TV station is it on these days? ESPN still? I really have no idea, I just know that those of us that don't subscribe Sky can't watch it. Wondering aloud here - now Red Bull have the TV rights as of next year, will we see a Red Bull sponsored WTC role, effectively "pushing him" out of WRC to level the field and allow the sport to turn a new leaf?
Stick it back on Freeview!
Have Sky managed to get more than 1 million viewers on the F1 show yet? Doubt it... Lets hope the F1 doesn't follow the WRC into the abyss
nickfrog said:
Streps said:
Still can't believe the FIA denied him a superlicence.
Yes it was mad as they allowed Raikonnen to enter WRC...m8rky said:
It does look that way. He really is an incredible driver and it'll be great to see him in a different race series. I can imagine he's excited about it too.It's interesting to note that of the 24 Race Of Champion events that have been held, 19 of them have been won by rally drivers. Interesting and, I would say, unsurprising.
EDLT said:
You still won't see the lairy cars, top Pikes Peak cars have 1000hp+ and they (used to) look fairly drivable on gravel, Gronholm managed quite well with an 800hp Fiesta. There are few lairy (modern) race cars anywhere, too many advances in tyre and suspension design have put an end to that. Many rally drivers are starting to copy Loeb's minimal sliding style in an effort to go faster, making big slides into mistakes rather than part of the sport.
Unless by spectacular you meant devastating speed, which is what the previous WRC cars had by the bucketload. They really were pretty close to your idea too, I assume the bits you'd tweak would be removing the need for road going versions and limitless development to cut costs (the ONLY way you'll get manufacturers back)
Anyway, manufacturers ARE coming back. VW next year, Hyundai in the late season + 2014 and MINI having another go at a full season. They just need to sort out the UK's TV coverage.
You put 600ponies through rear wheels on gravel and you will produce interesting slip angles into the corners. Smooth, minimal sliding or not.Unless by spectacular you meant devastating speed, which is what the previous WRC cars had by the bucketload. They really were pretty close to your idea too, I assume the bits you'd tweak would be removing the need for road going versions and limitless development to cut costs (the ONLY way you'll get manufacturers back)
Anyway, manufacturers ARE coming back. VW next year, Hyundai in the late season + 2014 and MINI having another go at a full season. They just need to sort out the UK's TV coverage.
VW. Hyundai and a Mini countryman? Be still my beating heart.
DJRC said:
EDLT said:
You still won't see the lairy cars, top Pikes Peak cars have 1000hp+ and they (used to) look fairly drivable on gravel, Gronholm managed quite well with an 800hp Fiesta. There are few lairy (modern) race cars anywhere, too many advances in tyre and suspension design have put an end to that. Many rally drivers are starting to copy Loeb's minimal sliding style in an effort to go faster, making big slides into mistakes rather than part of the sport.
Unless by spectacular you meant devastating speed, which is what the previous WRC cars had by the bucketload. They really were pretty close to your idea too, I assume the bits you'd tweak would be removing the need for road going versions and limitless development to cut costs (the ONLY way you'll get manufacturers back)
Anyway, manufacturers ARE coming back. VW next year, Hyundai in the late season + 2014 and MINI having another go at a full season. They just need to sort out the UK's TV coverage.
You put 600ponies through rear wheels on gravel and you will produce interesting slip angles into the corners. Smooth, minimal sliding or not.Unless by spectacular you meant devastating speed, which is what the previous WRC cars had by the bucketload. They really were pretty close to your idea too, I assume the bits you'd tweak would be removing the need for road going versions and limitless development to cut costs (the ONLY way you'll get manufacturers back)
Anyway, manufacturers ARE coming back. VW next year, Hyundai in the late season + 2014 and MINI having another go at a full season. They just need to sort out the UK's TV coverage.
VW. Hyundai and a Mini countryman? Be still my beating heart.
Can you think of a way to attract such glamorous names as Peugeot, Audi, Seat, Skoda and MG? I tried Saab but they aren't returning my calls, and Lancia's number keeps getting redirected to some American bloke.
KaraK said:
The lairy factor of the group B cars certainly gained the WRC a lot of spectator and manufacturer interest - it also arguably contributed to the deaths of 6 people and injured a couple of dozen more in the space of one season.
Thing is, the spectator numbers didn't significantly decline when Group A replaced Group B. The dropoff seemed to occur when 'WRC' rules came in and the cars became silhouette things with bugger-all in common with road cars you could buy. The ballsup over the TV coverage didn't help either.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff