The Official Korean GP thread (WITH SPOILERS)

[AreOut]

I can't see many drivers that would win in that car this year, especially in first half of the season.

[MGJohn]

Gaz. said:

MGJohn said:

OK, Alonso's been very unlucky this season

Has he? A DNF by Grosjean and a racing incident with Raikkonen and I'm really struggling to think of any misfortune, bad luck or errors on his part on on the teams part for the whole season, perhaps running a 1 stop in Canada at the most.

So was the Grosjean DNF and Raikkonen incidents Good Luck ? Maybe in your "struggling" way of thinking, not mine. Though not as unlucky as say Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher, Rosberg, Button and a few other drivers were occasionally.

Alonso has driven very well this season although sometimes benefitting from the indifferent 'luck' of others.

[heebeegeetee]

I think in the long season's we get now, a dnf here and there can be expected. of course fernando is in a car that more often than not he's not qualifying on the front row, so I think he's done a great job of minimising errors and 'bad luck'

I also think it can be said that with Grosjean around, everyone has a chance of 'bad luck' . Mind you at Spa Alonso was lucky in that at least one other top rival was also taken out.

Meanwhile... Gary Anderson's good, isn't he? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941812

[Forbes82]

TheHeretic said:

In see Jackie Stweart has been prattling again. He says if Vettel wins his 3rd WDC then he still will not be considered a great. His reasoning is that he had superior machinery... A bit like his Tyrrell, really.

So his Tyrrell was superior to the Lotus 72 in 1973 was it? And the Mclaren m23? To call Stewarts machinery 'dominant' is ridiculous. Yes they were good well prepared cars, but during his era there were many cars that were its equal.

I think his reasoning is that we have yet to see many races from Vettel that are not him running off into the distance in a car quite obviously better than the rest. (Not his fault of course!) A couple more heroic 'against the odds' drives, like his torro rosso drive or battling throught the pack, and by the end of his career i would expect he is viewed amoung the best.

Edited by Forbes82 on Thursday 18th October 13:25

[TheHeretic]

Steady on there little fella. I never said his Tyrrell was dominant, so either you need to get your eyes checked, or you need to stop reading I to what I wrote. The Tyrrell was an excellent car, and was as good as any that year.

Stewart seems to be an ever growing list of 'it wasn't like that in my day' ex-drivers.

[heebeegeetee]

I disagree, I think Stewart is spot on, and I for one am very much enjoying wtching Alonso this year. he is showing me why I think he is the best of the current lot.

[vonuber]

I think if vettel wins a 3rd in a row he will be the best of the field, especially based on this season.

[heebeegeetee]

vonuber said:

I think if vettel wins a 3rd in a row he will be the best of the field, especially based on this season.

D'you not think Alonso would have enjoyed an even greater lead had he been in a Red Bull?

[TheHeretic]

heebeegeetee said:

D'you not think Alonso would have enjoyed an even greater lead had he been in a Red Bull?

Speculation. No way of knowing.

[RealSquirrels]

TheHeretic said:

heebeegeetee said:

D'you not think Alonso would have enjoyed an even greater lead had he been in a Red Bull?

Speculation. No way of knowing.

you could put alonso in a red bull and see...

I agree that vettel hasn't to date shown an ability to win in slightly inferior machinery to the degree that hamilton and (especially) alonso have.

[heebeegeetee]

TheHeretic said:

Speculation. No way of knowing.

I think we can take an educated guess, based on history.

I mean, it may be that FA could go to RB and throw his toys out of the pram again, but on the other hand I don't think there's any other leading team in F1 that is so inept at management as McL.

[TheHeretic]

heebeegeetee said:

TheHeretic said:

Speculation. No way of knowing.

I think we can take an educated guess, based on history.

I mean, it may be that FA could go to RB and throw his toys out of the pram again, but on the other hand I don't think there's any other leading team in F1 that is so inept at management as McL.

How do you leap from Vettel, Alonso, and Redbull, to McLaren's inept management in one sentence? You can take an educated guess all you want, but until they have a 'control' it will always remain speculation. They have not driven the same machine.

[TheHeretic]

Gaz. said:

I'd love to know what Mclaren's shareholders think of this year's performance.

Tutting loudly, I would imagine.

[Flying Toilet]

Gaz. said:

I'd love to know what Mclaren's shareholders think of this year's performance.

I have said it numerous times this year and it wont change until Whitmarsh changes or leaves.

They spend to much time watching what there rivals are doing in hope of a protest or learning something that they lose momentum and make stupid mistakes.

[vonuber]

heebeegeetee said:

D'you not think Alonso would have enjoyed an even greater lead had he been in a Red Bull?

No way of knowing. Would Alonso have managed to pick up the points to remain in touch whilst the development race went on like vettel has? I think they have both had very good seasons. Either of them deserve to win as they both have made very few errors and picked up points where they could.

[RichB]

Bedazzled said:

Vettel is a modern-day Jimmy Clark...

Except that Clarke would race a GP car one weekend and the next go out in a Lotus Cortina and win in that too. With Vettel we will never know but Clark proved his versatility and ability to win in a variety of cars, Vettel hasn't yet done so.

[vonuber]

RichB said:

With Vettel we will never know but Clark proved his versatility and ability to win in a variety of cars, Vettel hasn't yet done so.

Like Hamilton, yet people are swift to say he is on a par with Alonso as a great.

[RichB]

vonuber said:

RichB said:

With Vettel we will never know but Clark proved his versatility and ability to win in a variety of cars, Vettel hasn't yet done so.

Like Hamilton, yet people are swift to say he is on a par with Alonso as a great.

Sorry that's just an odd comment. The comparison was with Jim Clark not blooming Fernado Alonso.

[RichB]

Gaz. said:

Yet neither will do a Jim Clark and race in different cars on any given day, those days are long gone.

Unless someone like Schumacher takes on where he left off and starts racing at Le Mans or GT cars?

[Ecurie Ecosse]

vonuber said:

RichB said:

With Vettel we will never know but Clark proved his versatility and ability to win in a variety of cars, Vettel hasn't yet done so.

Like Hamilton, yet people are swift to say he is on a par with Alonso as a great.

Well, at least Hamilton attempted to race a saloon car in Australia a couple of years ago, but look where that ended up