BTCC 2012 Season
Discussion
I see a few of you have seen Thorneys article.... Does no one else think the blokes on another planet?
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell?
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell?
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
AJracer said:
I see a few of you have seen Thorneys article.... Does no one else think the blokes on another planet?
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell?
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
15 people per car doesn't sound that crazy, I'm sure I've seen more than 3-4 running around the top teams.And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell?
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
Did Stockton really refuse to drive the car because it was dangerous? I thought that was just a rumour?
Thorney car was the first ngtc car build by a private team the audi, toyota and proton was built by gprm are
whatever it's called then the teams either put all the bits together or modified to there specs.
I think thorney needed the money from the first car is reports are right then it was around 250k to build the first one but with experience from the first one it's cheaper to build others. So sell the one built one and one shell to gilham for a sum reported around 300-400k then has the money to build other for him and other teams. Personaly we will see no more than 3-4 insgnia racing the 2 from team hard and 1 for thorney.
whatever it's called then the teams either put all the bits together or modified to there specs.
I think thorney needed the money from the first car is reports are right then it was around 250k to build the first one but with experience from the first one it's cheaper to build others. So sell the one built one and one shell to gilham for a sum reported around 300-400k then has the money to build other for him and other teams. Personaly we will see no more than 3-4 insgnia racing the 2 from team hard and 1 for thorney.
Granted, top teams will have a couple more but the majority of teams its only about that number I’m sure. Mechanics anyway, plenty of other people in team gear but generally not actually working on the cars.
To be fair the Stockton thing was a rumour but confirmed by the fact he was seen fit and healthy chatting away after the races on Sunday. I think he came to collect his truck…?
No, Dan Welch definitely did his own shell, 100% sure of that.
There’s no way the cars were sold to team Hard for over 200k! They could buy an MG or a Honda for that sort of money. Ive heard from a good source both cars went for less than 150k and the second one was just an unpainted bare shell.
Based on that total lack of logic of selling the cars and building new ones at a huge loss and the amount of other lies I don’t believe for one moment that he has secured sponsorship or that we will ever see him in the BTCC again.
Think about it, if you wanted to sponsor a BTCC car, whats the point in going with Thorney? There are so many teams who are struggling for cash who actually have potential and are so hungry to do well. You would be a mad man to take your budget there!
To be fair the Stockton thing was a rumour but confirmed by the fact he was seen fit and healthy chatting away after the races on Sunday. I think he came to collect his truck…?
No, Dan Welch definitely did his own shell, 100% sure of that.
There’s no way the cars were sold to team Hard for over 200k! They could buy an MG or a Honda for that sort of money. Ive heard from a good source both cars went for less than 150k and the second one was just an unpainted bare shell.
Based on that total lack of logic of selling the cars and building new ones at a huge loss and the amount of other lies I don’t believe for one moment that he has secured sponsorship or that we will ever see him in the BTCC again.
Think about it, if you wanted to sponsor a BTCC car, whats the point in going with Thorney? There are so many teams who are struggling for cash who actually have potential and are so hungry to do well. You would be a mad man to take your budget there!
The honda and mg were well over 300k to build no way they would sell them for 200k and there is no mg or hondas for sale. We don't know what happend behind closed doors so hard to say exact figures just wait and see for the first round.
Welch car was from gprm well the shell was anyway.
Welch car was from gprm well the shell was anyway.
I cant say for sure what money they are selling the MG's for but i heard a rumour it was just over 200k
We will agree to disagree on Welch's car but Thorney didnt do his shell either. That was done by another company who designed and built it, so he's no more a constructor than Welch whether GPRM did the shell or not.
I'm not here to argue anyway, its just the bulls
t really bugs me. I would bet money we don’t see him back in BTCC.
We will agree to disagree on Welch's car but Thorney didnt do his shell either. That was done by another company who designed and built it, so he's no more a constructor than Welch whether GPRM did the shell or not.
I'm not here to argue anyway, its just the bulls
t really bugs me. I would bet money we don’t see him back in BTCC.AJracer said:
I see a few of you have seen Thorneys article.... Does no one else think the blokes on another planet?
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell?
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
One big reason why the Insignia is so far back is down to the NGTC subframaes. There's been 6 revisions since the start of the year that all the teams have had to buy, Thorney are still on the first as they couldn't afford the upgrades. Along with all the other bits and pieces that they haven't fitted, it's put the car a long way behind in development. And they haven't sold the cars to Gilham at a loss apparently, more 'at base cost' the only money they've lost is entry fees and general running costs. And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell?
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
There's also a reason for Wrathall's sudden dominance ini the last race at brands. He was allowed to run higher boost.... And with Honda running a radio in Andrew Jordan's car all day (on the instruction/agreement that if he was quicker than the factory cars then they wouldn't hold him up/he didn't cause them any trouble) they also spent the last 5 laps orchestrating the formation finish over the line so weren't in much of a rush to chase after him.
Final piece of information, Vauxhall are back in officially next year with the main rumour being Wrathall will be driving for them so his win was an extra piece of future publicity. Heard all this last night from a mechanic who works for a winning BTCC team....
DanDC5 said:
AJracer said:
I see a few of you have seen Thorneys article.... Does no one else think the blokes on another planet?
And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell?
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
One big reason why the Insignia is so far back is down to the NGTC subframaes. There's been 6 revisions since the start of the year that all the teams have had to buy, Thorney are still on the first as they couldn't afford the upgrades. Along with all the other bits and pieces that they haven't fitted, it's put the car a long way behind in development. And they haven't sold the cars to Gilham at a loss apparently, more 'at base cost' the only money they've lost is entry fees and general running costs. And here’s why
1- If he’s secured sponsors and is building cars for next season then why bother selling the current cars at a rumoured “huge loss” especially when one was only a bare shell?
2- What team has 15 people on a car? Most teams only have 3 or 4 guys running a car. The bigger teams a few extras granted.
3- He had a Stingray RV so why is he so hard done by?
4- The car has never shown potential of any kind, Snetterton is the quickest its been and he admits they were playing with the boost. Gilham was the quickest NGTC car in every speed trap and quicker than the S2000’s in one as well.
5- Stockton wasn’t ill… he had only driven the car in the wet and after a dry session he refused to drive it again on the grounds of safety!
6- Welch built his own car long before Thorney, he knows that, so why say you’re the first?
7- Team Hard wouldn’t struggle to run any new car… they only struggled at Brands because it was in “appalling” condition and the team freely admit they are going to have to start again in the winter. And why would they want set up advice from the man with the worst set up car on the grid?
I could go on but I think you get my point. I’m sorry if it looks like I’m just ripping the guy apart and I know it must be tough and all the new teams struggled with the NGTC stuff from GPRM but that reports just a fairy-tale and it annoys me when people lie!
There's also a reason for Wrathall's sudden dominance ini the last race at brands. He was allowed to run higher boost.... And with Honda running a radio in Andrew Jordan's car all day (on the instruction/agreement that if he was quicker than the factory cars then they wouldn't hold him up/he didn't cause them any trouble) they also spent the last 5 laps orchestrating the formation finish over the line so weren't in much of a rush to chase after him.
Final piece of information, Vauxhall are back in officially next year with the main rumour being Wrathall will be driving for them so his win was an extra piece of future publicity. Heard all this last night from a mechanic who works for a winning BTCC team....
I've heard the rumours about Wrathall as well. I hear he failed the ride height test as well but they just let him go. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had some manufacturer support hes got a very good PR team behind him.
AJracer said:
I don’t buy it. He says he spent a fortune updating the NGTC parts so surely they are up to date? And I'm sure Hard wouldn’t have bought out of date stuff and for that matter why else would they of bought the cars at all unless they were very very cheap? They are clearly disgusted with the thing!
I've heard the rumours about Wrathall as well. I hear he failed the ride height test as well but they just let him go. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had some manufacturer support hes got a very good PR team behind him.
Thorney apparently only updated the smaller parts. The subframe upgrade and I believe a couple of other larger pieces are all still original. Hard have only bought the car, so they'll spend the money on the upto date parts as soon as they're available over winter. It's a win-win for them to be honest, they get a cheap NGTC car so can spend the money on the 2013 parts that everyone else is going to have anyway. I've heard the rumours about Wrathall as well. I hear he failed the ride height test as well but they just let him go. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had some manufacturer support hes got a very good PR team behind him.
DanDC5 said:
AJracer said:
I don’t buy it. He says he spent a fortune updating the NGTC parts so surely they are up to date? And I'm sure Hard wouldn’t have bought out of date stuff and for that matter why else would they of bought the cars at all unless they were very very cheap? They are clearly disgusted with the thing!
I've heard the rumours about Wrathall as well. I hear he failed the ride height test as well but they just let him go. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had some manufacturer support hes got a very good PR team behind him.
Thorney apparently only updated the smaller parts. The subframe upgrade and I believe a couple of other larger pieces are all still original. Hard have only bought the car, so they'll spend the money on the upto date parts as soon as they're available over winter. It's a win-win for them to be honest, they get a cheap NGTC car so can spend the money on the 2013 parts that everyone else is going to have anyway. I've heard the rumours about Wrathall as well. I hear he failed the ride height test as well but they just let him go. It wouldn’t surprise me if he had some manufacturer support hes got a very good PR team behind him.
Hard still have to start again, all they really have is are 2 shells and one NGTC kit. nothing else is worth keeping apparently. Still its better and cheaper than starting from scratch for them I suppose.
I've no idea on numbers but buying even 2 shells and engines and developing them has to be better for the wallet than commissioning a new build from scratch even with all the off the shelf parts that go into an NGTC car.
I'm curious about Thorney's big sponsor to be honest, there seems to be no info leaked anywhere about it. At the moment it looks like we're waiting until the Autosport show to find out.
And, which team are running the Vauxhall's? I assume it won't be Thorney as he approached them last year for sponsorship and was politely declined. As Wrathall is apparently the driver will it be Dynojet?
I'm curious about Thorney's big sponsor to be honest, there seems to be no info leaked anywhere about it. At the moment it looks like we're waiting until the Autosport show to find out.
And, which team are running the Vauxhall's? I assume it won't be Thorney as he approached them last year for sponsorship and was politely declined. As Wrathall is apparently the driver will it be Dynojet?
There are two threads running on this it seems so apologies for missing it.
As regards the Welch car, the shell was prepared by GPRM and assembled by GPRM and Welch when they got short of time. Of course since then its been (re)engineered by Welch.
As regards our shells, I've answered that on the other thread, but they are very much ours with our input, design and execution.
As regards the subframes, the car was sold with the latest version installed, no other updates were needed.
As regards the Welch car, the shell was prepared by GPRM and assembled by GPRM and Welch when they got short of time. Of course since then its been (re)engineered by Welch.
As regards our shells, I've answered that on the other thread, but they are very much ours with our input, design and execution.
As regards the subframes, the car was sold with the latest version installed, no other updates were needed.
DanDC5 said:
And, which team are running the Vauxhall's? I assume it won't be Thorney as he approached them last year for sponsorship and was politely declined. As Wrathall is apparently the driver will it be Dynojet?
Dynojet will continue with the Avensis for 2013. They have sold their 2011 car to Ciceley for Adam Morgan, but they had a brand new machine for this year.
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