Explain NASCAR to me please
Discussion
Great write up!
Am I correct in thinking that to keep up with a pretty packed season some of the top drivers (if not all) actually have two complete teams / set-ups? Whilst one team is racing the other is already making its way to the next venue by road. When it arrives the drivers and senior staff will fly to them and leave the team they left behind to move on the following venue?
I might have dreamed it thought.
Am I correct in thinking that to keep up with a pretty packed season some of the top drivers (if not all) actually have two complete teams / set-ups? Whilst one team is racing the other is already making its way to the next venue by road. When it arrives the drivers and senior staff will fly to them and leave the team they left behind to move on the following venue?
I might have dreamed it thought.
Crafty_ said:
I wouldn't say there is a lack of technology - they actually understand and use aero a fair bit, they have fuel injection on board and in the future NASCAR as talked about having "digital dashboards" - the hint is that telemetry from the cars will be available to fans to look at whilst a race is going on.
I think the best way to explain it is NASCAR teams have a great understanding of the technology they need to understand, but there's no mad rush to be doing things simply for the sake of it. Very much an "if it ain't broke..." ethos. People may think it's all just turning left, but you only have to look at the lack of success of people like Montoya (relatively) and Franchitti to see it's far more nuanced than that. I was going to say Montoya hasn't set the series on fire, but...As a fan, I'd actually say I prefer the Nationwide and truck series for pure racing. The Sprint Cup does tend to drag, especially at the longer tracks. Quite often only really comes alive in the last 50 laps or so, and then sometimes too much so. Nationwide races on more circuits as well, so has a bit more variety. The trucks are just downright scary, especially on the fast ovals. Edge of the seat stuff.
Disastrous said:
Also, is there an event every weekend or is it spread out like F1?
The season starts mid February with the shootout a week before the Daytona 500 and ends mid-late November. There are 36 points races, two non-points races (shootout and all-star) and two midweek qualifying races (duels). With 38 race weekends there are only 3 or 4 weekends without a Cup series race during the season. So, pretty much every weekend. Usually Sunday afternoon their time, so start time of 6pm-8pm ours. Maybe 1/4 of the races are Saturday evening for them, so start around midnight for us.Disastrous said:
Which are the 'Must Watch' races? Daytona, presumably, but others?
There are two races each at Daytona and Talladega. These are the "plate" tracks where the cars can run at full throttle the whole time, even if the engines were unrestricted (a test with an unrestricted car suggested that a single car could average 230mph at Talladega), so they have one of the restrictor plates which was pictured and only run about 450bhp. This keeps the speed of a single car down to ~185mph, or about 200mph when they are lined up. This in turn leads to big packs, lots of pushing and towards the end when it gets time to get paid, plenty of action. Definitely worth watching.Of the other tracks, I tend to prefer the shorter ones. At Bristol (1/2 mile) once the cars get strung out the track is just full of cars the whole way round and it used to be the only way to pass was to give the car in front a little shove on corner entry to force it up a lane, then dive underneath. Martinsville is a similar length and near flat, so again things get crowded and fraught. Both can make for some very tense racing and both are on my list to visit one day.
Disastrous said:
Genuinely good insight into the sport, thanks!
I've often wanted to 'get into' NASCAR but find the TV scheduling difficult to follow - is there a set Sky channel that shows every race at a regular time in the UK?
Cup races are shown live on Premier Sports on Sky. £7 a month, schedule here: http://www.nascar.com/races/cup/2013/data/schedule... Add 5 hours to the start time.I've often wanted to 'get into' NASCAR but find the TV scheduling difficult to follow - is there a set Sky channel that shows every race at a regular time in the UK?
Nationwide races are on MotorsTV, usually live but some are time shifted.
Trucks are not shown here.
hornet said:
I was going to say Montoya hasn't set the series on fire, but...
, for the uninitiated : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB3IcGqe50kThat was Daytona this year. The race got delayed by rain - NASCAR doesn't run in rain, 200mph on an oval isn't a good idea. These use jet engines to dry the track by directing the exhausts gases on to the tarmac.
Eventually the race got going, only to have to stop again for rain, then it got going again.. at the time of that video the race was under caution, Montoya's car was damaged.. leaving the pits he lost control and...
The comments about driver skill are spot on. 3 hours+ for a race requires some stamina and concentration! You also need to know when to push or just cruise, how to look after tyres and fuel level - if your crew chief says "save tyres & fuel, we're 5 laps short" you need to do everything you can to do that, if you have to make a stop under a green flag it'll kill your race.
Sometimes when fuel saving drivers will shut off the engine(!) Tony Stewart came a cropper doing this early in the year when it didn't restart, faulty coil pack IIRC. You'll also see drivers weaving around to get the last dregs of fuel to the pickup in the tank.
Anyway, not picking on one driver but check this out : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7MR2dqeoPI probably 160+ that. And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unN9wmDxbRE probably a bit quicker still.
More in a bit..
Crafty_ said:
No worries, my poor proof reading let it slip through 
So we need to cover :
Cautions
The Lucky Dog
Penalties
Green/White Checkers
Drafting
Humour
And some history
Plus whatever else I've forgotten!
Also...So we need to cover :
Cautions
The Lucky Dog
Penalties
Green/White Checkers
Drafting
Humour
And some history
Plus whatever else I've forgotten!
Phantom debris cautions during dull races
The Danica Effect
Boogity Boogity Boogity
Track owner politics
The usefulness of a friend named Justin...
NASCAR has fascinated me since I was a kid as there is nothing remotely like it over here.Rockingham UK tried but failed,great shame.I`ve been to Daytona and Homestead great fun,the fans are so friendly and are more than willing to get into conversation with UK visitors.Its a PH must,the site and sound of 40 cars going past door handle to door handle,bumper to bumper at 200mph is just awesome.Then the next few laps they have all changed positions.
bravonovember said:
hornet said:
Boogity Boogity Boogity
You what?http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
USA! USA! USA!
A bit of history then..
NASCAR is owned by the France family, it was founded in 1948 by Bill France Sr (died in 1992).
During prohibition in the states alcohol was made in quiet, out of the way (usually rural) areas. This was fine, except it had to be delivered to the speakeasys for consumption. Now, given it was illegal you could hardly just roll up in a delivery truck and offload a few barrels. So drivers were needed, they'd hide the alcohol in the car in false compartments or wherever they could but their main skill was out driving the police. The cars were "hopped up" to make them go faster.
Prohibition was repealed in the USA in 1933, but by this time the idea of motorsport was taking hold, the hot rod scene was just, just getting started with people like Vic Edelbrock who'd travel out to the salt flats in Utah (which came to be known as Bonneville) and race their car against the clock.
Dirt track racing was getting on for 20 years old, running on short oval tracks (I think mostly horse racing tracks).
Racing evolved, promoters started holding races, drivers won prize money. One race was held on the beach at Daytona, the cars raced down the sandy beach, turned left on to the coast road and then left again onto the sand.
Then the war came along.
Post war things were pretty good in the USA, young guys returning from the war were looking for kicks, they had lots of money and a thirst for excitement and danger.
Some raced on the roads at stop lights against their buddies - (this eventually became drag racing).
Some raced dirt track and "stock car". Promoters were running races again, but as with drag racing at the time there was no rule book, no classification of vehicles and so on.
Everyone was interested in making the cars go faster though. With new engineering skills learnt during the war guys like Vic Edelbrock, Ed Iskenderian and Ed Winfield set about improving performance of engines and setting up production facilities. Alex Xydias soon got in on the act, setting up So-Cal Speedshop in California.
Bill France came from Washington, but moved south in the 30s to avoid the cold winters. He raced a bit and got involved in promoting races at Daytona. During the war he made boats. Post war he started promoting races again, he soon realised that a common rule book was needed so that all races and cars were run under the same format. In 1947 he called a meeting of car owners, racers and promoters at the Streamline Hotel in Daytona, Florida. The National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing was born. Meantime in the drag racing fraternity Wally Parks had realised the same thing and founded the NHRA.
To some extent Bill France had pulled a quick one, people weren't too interested in setting up a racing club, but France was smart enough to realise there was money in it. Since then some people have criticised France for taking ownership - pretty much like Bernie Eccelstone in F1 some 30 years later.
France worked with promoters and organisers to hold races under the NASCAR banner. The France family still own NASCAR, headed by Bill France Jr (the grandson of Bill France Snr). It is a hugely valuable franchise, there is a quote on wikipedia that $3bn worth of merchandise is sold every year - not sure if its true but there is a hell of alot of money tied up in it and its teams.
There are multiple generations of drivers - one of the guys around at the start was Lee Petty, his son Richard Petty is knoown as "The King", his stats are amazing:
Richard Petty Career Statistics
His son Kyle raced and is now a pundit on TV coverage. Kyle's son Adam set out on a racing career that was cut short when he died following a crash in a practice session for a Nationwide Series race at Loudon in 2000. He was due to step up in to Cup in 2001. Adam was the first fourth generation NASCAR racer.
Also we have the Wallace and Waltrip families and various others..
One of the most well known names in NASCAR is Earnhardt. Ralph Earnhardt started racing in 1948, and raced into the early 60s. His son Dale (known as Dale Snr) was a hugely accomplished driver, he also won 7 championships (only he and Petty have managed this feat). Nicknamed "The Intimidator" he raced hard (and sometime took criticism for it) but he was a firm favourite with millions of fans.
During the 2001 Daytona 500 the unthinkable happened, Dale lost his life after a crash. The crash actually was relatively minor, the problem was Dale's seat belts broke, his head was flung forwards into the roll cage bars. He died of serious head trauma.
Dale's death sparked controversy - Bill Simpson, who's company made the seatbelts for every NASCAR resign from his own company. A full investigation of the accident was undertaken and its findings were used to develop the COT (Car of Tomorrow). Notably, one of the biggest changes was to move the driver 4" toward the centre of the car.
Dale Jr (known to all as Jr or JOOOONYAAH!) was driving in that race. He continues to race today and although he doesn't have the success of his father he is still a very popular driver.
'
Sr's death was a huge, huge blow to the sport, to give you some idea:
(Childress is Richard Childress, team owner).
NASCAR is owned by the France family, it was founded in 1948 by Bill France Sr (died in 1992).
During prohibition in the states alcohol was made in quiet, out of the way (usually rural) areas. This was fine, except it had to be delivered to the speakeasys for consumption. Now, given it was illegal you could hardly just roll up in a delivery truck and offload a few barrels. So drivers were needed, they'd hide the alcohol in the car in false compartments or wherever they could but their main skill was out driving the police. The cars were "hopped up" to make them go faster.
Prohibition was repealed in the USA in 1933, but by this time the idea of motorsport was taking hold, the hot rod scene was just, just getting started with people like Vic Edelbrock who'd travel out to the salt flats in Utah (which came to be known as Bonneville) and race their car against the clock.
Dirt track racing was getting on for 20 years old, running on short oval tracks (I think mostly horse racing tracks).
Racing evolved, promoters started holding races, drivers won prize money. One race was held on the beach at Daytona, the cars raced down the sandy beach, turned left on to the coast road and then left again onto the sand.
Then the war came along.
Post war things were pretty good in the USA, young guys returning from the war were looking for kicks, they had lots of money and a thirst for excitement and danger.
Some raced on the roads at stop lights against their buddies - (this eventually became drag racing).
Some raced dirt track and "stock car". Promoters were running races again, but as with drag racing at the time there was no rule book, no classification of vehicles and so on.
Everyone was interested in making the cars go faster though. With new engineering skills learnt during the war guys like Vic Edelbrock, Ed Iskenderian and Ed Winfield set about improving performance of engines and setting up production facilities. Alex Xydias soon got in on the act, setting up So-Cal Speedshop in California.
Bill France came from Washington, but moved south in the 30s to avoid the cold winters. He raced a bit and got involved in promoting races at Daytona. During the war he made boats. Post war he started promoting races again, he soon realised that a common rule book was needed so that all races and cars were run under the same format. In 1947 he called a meeting of car owners, racers and promoters at the Streamline Hotel in Daytona, Florida. The National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing was born. Meantime in the drag racing fraternity Wally Parks had realised the same thing and founded the NHRA.
To some extent Bill France had pulled a quick one, people weren't too interested in setting up a racing club, but France was smart enough to realise there was money in it. Since then some people have criticised France for taking ownership - pretty much like Bernie Eccelstone in F1 some 30 years later.
France worked with promoters and organisers to hold races under the NASCAR banner. The France family still own NASCAR, headed by Bill France Jr (the grandson of Bill France Snr). It is a hugely valuable franchise, there is a quote on wikipedia that $3bn worth of merchandise is sold every year - not sure if its true but there is a hell of alot of money tied up in it and its teams.
There are multiple generations of drivers - one of the guys around at the start was Lee Petty, his son Richard Petty is knoown as "The King", his stats are amazing:
Richard Petty Career Statistics
| Championships | 7 | ||
| Races | 1185 | Average Finish | 11.27 |
| Wins | 200 | Average Start | 9.5 |
| Top 5 Finishes | 555 | Total Laps Led | 49,881 |
| Top 10 Finishes | 712 | Total Laps | 307,846 |
| Top 20 Finishes | 921 | % of Laps | 84.40% |
| Poles | 127 | DNF's | 349 |
His son Kyle raced and is now a pundit on TV coverage. Kyle's son Adam set out on a racing career that was cut short when he died following a crash in a practice session for a Nationwide Series race at Loudon in 2000. He was due to step up in to Cup in 2001. Adam was the first fourth generation NASCAR racer.
Also we have the Wallace and Waltrip families and various others..
One of the most well known names in NASCAR is Earnhardt. Ralph Earnhardt started racing in 1948, and raced into the early 60s. His son Dale (known as Dale Snr) was a hugely accomplished driver, he also won 7 championships (only he and Petty have managed this feat). Nicknamed "The Intimidator" he raced hard (and sometime took criticism for it) but he was a firm favourite with millions of fans.
During the 2001 Daytona 500 the unthinkable happened, Dale lost his life after a crash. The crash actually was relatively minor, the problem was Dale's seat belts broke, his head was flung forwards into the roll cage bars. He died of serious head trauma.
Dale's death sparked controversy - Bill Simpson, who's company made the seatbelts for every NASCAR resign from his own company. A full investigation of the accident was undertaken and its findings were used to develop the COT (Car of Tomorrow). Notably, one of the biggest changes was to move the driver 4" toward the centre of the car.
Dale Jr (known to all as Jr or JOOOONYAAH!) was driving in that race. He continues to race today and although he doesn't have the success of his father he is still a very popular driver.
'
Sr's death was a huge, huge blow to the sport, to give you some idea:
(Childress is Richard Childress, team owner).
Wikipedia said:
Childress' second-year Busch Series driver Kevin Harvick was named as Earnhardt's replacement driver, beginning with the race following Earnhardt's death held at the North Carolina Speedway. Special pennants bearing the No. 3 were distributed to everyone at the track to honor Earnhardt, and the Childress team wore blank uniforms out of respect, something which disappeared quickly and was soon replaced by the previous GM Goodwrench Service Plus uniforms. The Earnhardt team car, the RCR number 29 Chevrolet driven by Kevin Harvick, still always displays the Earnhardt stylized number 3 on the "B" posts (metal portion on each side of the car to the rear of the front windows) above the number 29.
Fans began honoring Earnhardt by holding three fingers aloft on the third lap of every NASCAR Cup race, and the television coverage of NASCAR on Fox and NASCAR on NBC went silent for each third lap from Rockingham to the following year's race there in honor of Earnhardt. On-track incidents brought out the caution flag on the third lap. Three weeks later, Harvick scored his first career Cup win at Atlanta driving a car that had been prepared for Earnhardt. In the final lap of the 2001 Cracker Barrel Old Country Store 500, Harvick beat Jeff Gordon by .006 seconds, the same margin that Earnhardt had won over Bobby Labonte at the same race a year prior, and the images of Earnhardt's longtime gas man, Danny "Chocolate" Myers, crying after the victory, Harvick's tire-smoking burnout on the frontstretch with three fingers held aloft outside the driver's window
Thats more than enough for now, but one more video - 1952 Daytona race - something like 90 cars started the race! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecRZq8wdyYkFans began honoring Earnhardt by holding three fingers aloft on the third lap of every NASCAR Cup race, and the television coverage of NASCAR on Fox and NASCAR on NBC went silent for each third lap from Rockingham to the following year's race there in honor of Earnhardt. On-track incidents brought out the caution flag on the third lap. Three weeks later, Harvick scored his first career Cup win at Atlanta driving a car that had been prepared for Earnhardt. In the final lap of the 2001 Cracker Barrel Old Country Store 500, Harvick beat Jeff Gordon by .006 seconds, the same margin that Earnhardt had won over Bobby Labonte at the same race a year prior, and the images of Earnhardt's longtime gas man, Danny "Chocolate" Myers, crying after the victory, Harvick's tire-smoking burnout on the frontstretch with three fingers held aloft outside the driver's window
Edited by Crafty_ on Thursday 13th December 19:01
Blib said:
bravonovember said:
hornet said:
Boogity Boogity Boogity
You what?
LET'S GO RACIN' BOYS !!!!
Though Darryl does have a scanning issue when Danica races.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8by2zu8PgQ
And there is a legendary character called smokey yunick. Smoky Yunick was famous for his interpretations of the NASCAR rule book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Yunick
A quick rundown.
Over the years the legend of this car has grown, some stories are true and some have just gotten better with the retelling. In the day it was believed that this car and the ’67 car were 15/16 scale versions of the production Chevelle. This is not true, they both used factory sheet metal, the length and wheel-base are correct but the proportions have been “improved”. Smokey even created the first template to show NASCAR that his car matched a street Chevelle in the parking lot. It did, but then again the street car in the parking lot also belonged to Smokey. The front bumper was sliced and extended 2 inches to create a front air dam. The roof was modified with a subtle “vortex” generating lip. All the rough edges were smoothed, the glass was fit flush to the body, and the rear bumper feathered into the rear fender, all to improve the aerodynamics of the car.
It was common practice in NASCAR at that time to use the much stiffer Ford frame in a Chevy, Pontiac, or Dodge. Smokey believed that to mean that you could use “any manufacturers” frame in any car. So he “manufactured” his own frame. Since you had to keep the engine centered between the frame rails, he moved the entire frame to the left, as well as the fuel cell, driver and many other components to improve the balance of the car on Daytona’s banking. The engine was also used as a stressed member in the frame. The underside was an engineering marvel. The floor boards were lowered to create a belly pan, custom-made adjustable front control arms replaced stock units, and a revised front steer system was used to optimize the Ackerman angle and make room for the engines belly pan style oil pan.
The car weighed 3,900 lbs. and was powered by a de-stroked version of the Chevrolet Rat motor that displaced 416cid. Smokey’s theory was that less reciprocating mass meant higher backstretch RPM and decreased fatigue. The engine made 450HP at 7600RPM.
After nearing killing himself building the car Smokey showed up at Tech for the ’68 Daytona 500 on the last day. It was required that the car be inspected without any fuel in the tank. After six hours in the tech shed the car passed. The team pushed it over to the gas pumps to fill up and get ready for practice. They were refused fuel and told that they would not get any until the head of tech Joe Gazaway signed off on the car. Joe looked the car over and found ten items that had to be changed. First on the list was Smokey’s custom frame. It had to be a stock “Ford” frame. According to legend, with no fuel in the car and Joe telling a steaming mad Smokey he needed to change ten things on the car to race. Smokey jumped in, fired up the engine and said “make that eleven things” drove the car out of the racetrack onto the street and back to his shop. Smokey says that really isn’t true, he had put some fuel in the tank... but where did he get the fuel?
And nascar on road course is so amazing. very highly enteraining to watch.
that is his car. so sexy!
A quick rundown.
Over the years the legend of this car has grown, some stories are true and some have just gotten better with the retelling. In the day it was believed that this car and the ’67 car were 15/16 scale versions of the production Chevelle. This is not true, they both used factory sheet metal, the length and wheel-base are correct but the proportions have been “improved”. Smokey even created the first template to show NASCAR that his car matched a street Chevelle in the parking lot. It did, but then again the street car in the parking lot also belonged to Smokey. The front bumper was sliced and extended 2 inches to create a front air dam. The roof was modified with a subtle “vortex” generating lip. All the rough edges were smoothed, the glass was fit flush to the body, and the rear bumper feathered into the rear fender, all to improve the aerodynamics of the car.
It was common practice in NASCAR at that time to use the much stiffer Ford frame in a Chevy, Pontiac, or Dodge. Smokey believed that to mean that you could use “any manufacturers” frame in any car. So he “manufactured” his own frame. Since you had to keep the engine centered between the frame rails, he moved the entire frame to the left, as well as the fuel cell, driver and many other components to improve the balance of the car on Daytona’s banking. The engine was also used as a stressed member in the frame. The underside was an engineering marvel. The floor boards were lowered to create a belly pan, custom-made adjustable front control arms replaced stock units, and a revised front steer system was used to optimize the Ackerman angle and make room for the engines belly pan style oil pan.
The car weighed 3,900 lbs. and was powered by a de-stroked version of the Chevrolet Rat motor that displaced 416cid. Smokey’s theory was that less reciprocating mass meant higher backstretch RPM and decreased fatigue. The engine made 450HP at 7600RPM.
After nearing killing himself building the car Smokey showed up at Tech for the ’68 Daytona 500 on the last day. It was required that the car be inspected without any fuel in the tank. After six hours in the tech shed the car passed. The team pushed it over to the gas pumps to fill up and get ready for practice. They were refused fuel and told that they would not get any until the head of tech Joe Gazaway signed off on the car. Joe looked the car over and found ten items that had to be changed. First on the list was Smokey’s custom frame. It had to be a stock “Ford” frame. According to legend, with no fuel in the car and Joe telling a steaming mad Smokey he needed to change ten things on the car to race. Smokey jumped in, fired up the engine and said “make that eleven things” drove the car out of the racetrack onto the street and back to his shop. Smokey says that really isn’t true, he had put some fuel in the tank... but where did he get the fuel?
And nascar on road course is so amazing. very highly enteraining to watch.
that is his car. so sexy!
Edited by vrooom on Thursday 13th December 19:52
^ The fuel was in the fuel lines.
NASCAR mandated the size of the tank, but they didn't mandate the size or length of the fuel lines. So, as it was a grey area he took advantage and installed far more fuel line that was much wider than required, this meant the car could hold more fuel, which meant another lap or two before stopping.
When it was found it was thrown out, Smokey protested, asking where in the rule book it said he couldn't do what he'd done. It didn't wash, the car was still deemed illegal.
NASCAR mandated the size of the tank, but they didn't mandate the size or length of the fuel lines. So, as it was a grey area he took advantage and installed far more fuel line that was much wider than required, this meant the car could hold more fuel, which meant another lap or two before stopping.
When it was found it was thrown out, Smokey protested, asking where in the rule book it said he couldn't do what he'd done. It didn't wash, the car was still deemed illegal.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff