Explain NASCAR to me please
Discussion
Good evening all. As a massive Motorsport fan for many years, both 2 & 4 wheel I was rather embarrassed when asked by a friend the other day to tell him more about NASCAR. Now I can bore people to tears for many an hour about F1 or bike racing but struggled to pull up any knowledge on NASCAR other than they go round in circles.
Now I know there are different manufacturers but are these just a change of body style or really factory cars? Are the engines all standard or does each team develop an tune their own? Is chassis tech fairly similar or not?
My image of it is cars build by small teams in workshops in the good ol south all pretty much the same and then they stick on the badge of what ever car company is paying the bills that year. How wrong am I?
Now I know there are different manufacturers but are these just a change of body style or really factory cars? Are the engines all standard or does each team develop an tune their own? Is chassis tech fairly similar or not?
My image of it is cars build by small teams in workshops in the good ol south all pretty much the same and then they stick on the badge of what ever car company is paying the bills that year. How wrong am I?
Its kind of complicated.. we'll stick with Sprint Cup as there is also the Nationwide and Truck series.
Teams will have an association with a manufacturer to run "their" car. One of the big changes for 2013 is winners Penske moving to Ford - they have been using Dodge, but Dodge decided to pull out earlier in the year. Teams moving between manufacturers whilst not unknown tends to be fairly rare, the biggest upheaval was when Toyota joined the sport some years ago now.
The cars are basically all the same, after Dale Earnhardt lost his life in 2001 ( this was a massive loss to the sport ) NASCAR mandated a new car design that improved safety, the car is called the COT or Car Of Tomorrow. My understanding is the teams construct the chassis to the same design.. although from what I can work out there is a little bit of leeway for them to add their own touches to make a difference..
Whilst teams run a bodyshell that resembles the road going version of the car all bodies have to match a standard template.. screw around with the body too much and you'll get told off and fined. Here it is:
Engines are built by the teams, but you may find them dealing engines between themselves. For example in 2013 the EGR (Earnhardt Ganssai Racing) team will be buying engines from Hendrick Motorsports.
Recently in the lesser Nationwide series they moved to using more identifiable bodystyles, this has proved popular with fans so in 2013 Sprint Cup crews are able to use a body that more resembles the road car. This is good for manufacturers.
There is no team championship - just the drivers. Teams run as many as 4 cars. Each car tends to have a title sponsor (you'll hear them say things like "The Mobil 1 car"), some cars will share title sponsors, so at one race it runs a livery for company A, the next race it sports the colours of company B.
NASCAR is driven by sponsorship, have you noticed F1 drivers recently saying stuff like "The vodafone mclaren mercedes was perfect today?" well that came from NASCAR, who shamelessly name drop in any interview/chat. Races are sponsored ("And welcome to the coca cola 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway.."). They even sponsor green flags sometimes!
Its not a solid rule, but often drivers will retain their racing number, if they move team they take the number with them. Doesn't always happen though, for example Joey Logano moves from racing the #20 car for Joe Gibbs Racing to the #22 for Penske in 2013.
Dale Earnhardt Snr was number 3, always. The number is retired from Sprint Cup, no-one can use it. One of the coolest things I've seen related to motorsport was February 2011 race, the 10th anniversary of Earnhardt's death, on the third lap everyone - fans, crew members.. *everyone* silently held three fingers aloft.
Daytona holds near 170,000 people!!
Tracks vary, they do some "road courses" (circuits to me and you). There are many types of oval - you get a simple oval with banked corners or maybe a rather flat "square" oval like Indy. You get tri ovals like Pocono, "D shape" ones like Chicago. On top of that the length varies - Bristol is only a half mile long and known as a "short track", Talladega is 2.4 miles and called a "super speedway".
At tracks like Talladega the engines are fitted with a restrictor plate to limit engine power. The plate fits between the carb (yeah carb!) and the inlet manifold:
The engines will make 850hp with an 8500rpm limit, probably somewhere around 450 with a plate fitted.
Even so the cars will top 200-210mph at the super speedways, maybe 180ish in the corners.
I mentioned carbs.. 2012 was a big year - Sprint Cup moved to using fuel injection for the first time. Its a standard ECU made by McLaren electronics. Lots of drivers didn't like it at first, but they have sort of accepted it.
36 races a year, keeps the teams constantly on the road. Season starts in February with the Daytona 500 race (Daytona is pretty much where the sport started), ends in November. they do a kinda whacky system called "The Chase". In 2003 Matt Kenseth won the championship but only had one race win that year. NASCAR came into criticism for this and so implemented "the race to the chase". The way it works is:
After the first 26 races of the season the top 10 drivers enter the chase, they are joined by 2 wildcard entries from positions 11-20th who have the best results (i.e. race wins). Points are reset for these 12 drivers, then whoever scores the most points over the next 10 races wins the championship.
right, I've bored you all enough, next time we'll cover cautions, green white checkers, "have at it" and girl drivers.. for now here are a few pics of 2013 cars:
Ford Fusion
Chevrolet SS
Toyota Camry
Teams will have an association with a manufacturer to run "their" car. One of the big changes for 2013 is winners Penske moving to Ford - they have been using Dodge, but Dodge decided to pull out earlier in the year. Teams moving between manufacturers whilst not unknown tends to be fairly rare, the biggest upheaval was when Toyota joined the sport some years ago now.
The cars are basically all the same, after Dale Earnhardt lost his life in 2001 ( this was a massive loss to the sport ) NASCAR mandated a new car design that improved safety, the car is called the COT or Car Of Tomorrow. My understanding is the teams construct the chassis to the same design.. although from what I can work out there is a little bit of leeway for them to add their own touches to make a difference..
Whilst teams run a bodyshell that resembles the road going version of the car all bodies have to match a standard template.. screw around with the body too much and you'll get told off and fined. Here it is:
Engines are built by the teams, but you may find them dealing engines between themselves. For example in 2013 the EGR (Earnhardt Ganssai Racing) team will be buying engines from Hendrick Motorsports.
Recently in the lesser Nationwide series they moved to using more identifiable bodystyles, this has proved popular with fans so in 2013 Sprint Cup crews are able to use a body that more resembles the road car. This is good for manufacturers.
There is no team championship - just the drivers. Teams run as many as 4 cars. Each car tends to have a title sponsor (you'll hear them say things like "The Mobil 1 car"), some cars will share title sponsors, so at one race it runs a livery for company A, the next race it sports the colours of company B.
NASCAR is driven by sponsorship, have you noticed F1 drivers recently saying stuff like "The vodafone mclaren mercedes was perfect today?" well that came from NASCAR, who shamelessly name drop in any interview/chat. Races are sponsored ("And welcome to the coca cola 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway.."). They even sponsor green flags sometimes!
Its not a solid rule, but often drivers will retain their racing number, if they move team they take the number with them. Doesn't always happen though, for example Joey Logano moves from racing the #20 car for Joe Gibbs Racing to the #22 for Penske in 2013.
Dale Earnhardt Snr was number 3, always. The number is retired from Sprint Cup, no-one can use it. One of the coolest things I've seen related to motorsport was February 2011 race, the 10th anniversary of Earnhardt's death, on the third lap everyone - fans, crew members.. *everyone* silently held three fingers aloft.
Daytona holds near 170,000 people!!
Tracks vary, they do some "road courses" (circuits to me and you). There are many types of oval - you get a simple oval with banked corners or maybe a rather flat "square" oval like Indy. You get tri ovals like Pocono, "D shape" ones like Chicago. On top of that the length varies - Bristol is only a half mile long and known as a "short track", Talladega is 2.4 miles and called a "super speedway".
At tracks like Talladega the engines are fitted with a restrictor plate to limit engine power. The plate fits between the carb (yeah carb!) and the inlet manifold:
The engines will make 850hp with an 8500rpm limit, probably somewhere around 450 with a plate fitted.
Even so the cars will top 200-210mph at the super speedways, maybe 180ish in the corners.
I mentioned carbs.. 2012 was a big year - Sprint Cup moved to using fuel injection for the first time. Its a standard ECU made by McLaren electronics. Lots of drivers didn't like it at first, but they have sort of accepted it.
36 races a year, keeps the teams constantly on the road. Season starts in February with the Daytona 500 race (Daytona is pretty much where the sport started), ends in November. they do a kinda whacky system called "The Chase". In 2003 Matt Kenseth won the championship but only had one race win that year. NASCAR came into criticism for this and so implemented "the race to the chase". The way it works is:
After the first 26 races of the season the top 10 drivers enter the chase, they are joined by 2 wildcard entries from positions 11-20th who have the best results (i.e. race wins). Points are reset for these 12 drivers, then whoever scores the most points over the next 10 races wins the championship.
right, I've bored you all enough, next time we'll cover cautions, green white checkers, "have at it" and girl drivers.. for now here are a few pics of 2013 cars:
Ford Fusion
Chevrolet SS
Toyota Camry
Edited by Crafty_ on Wednesday 12th December 22:07
Edited by Crafty_ on Wednesday 12th December 22:52
Wow, thanks Crafty. So to summarise cars are very similar technically so almost like a one make series I guess it's mainly about setup an the driver? With the championship 'the chase' sounds like the setup run in British superbikes the last couple of years. You race most of the year just for the while thing to start again with a few races to go for the top guys?
You said you'd concentrate on one series, I take the others run along a similar pattern but are slower/less advanced like the lower open wheel formulas we are used to seeing below F1?
The main thing that baffles me is the apparent lack of technology in this form of Motorsport. They almost seem very much against moving forward.
You said you'd concentrate on one series, I take the others run along a similar pattern but are slower/less advanced like the lower open wheel formulas we are used to seeing below F1?
The main thing that baffles me is the apparent lack of technology in this form of Motorsport. They almost seem very much against moving forward.
Doh, thanks Pothole, corrected..
You can nail the setup in practice, but come the race its useless, so the ability to think on your feet and fix the car setup is vital.. A driver will complain about being tight or loose - understeer or oversteer to you. Knowing when to leave him struggling on track or bring him in and make an adjustment can make or break your race. Also the driver looking after the tyres and the crew monitoring tyre wear and fuel usage is critical. Cars have no fuel gauge and there is no telemetry for fuel level back to the pits, so the crew have to dead reckon usage.. which gets real fun if there is a caution and fuel usage drops..
The other series that NASCAR run is the Nationwide Series and the Camping World Truck Series. Nationwide is the sponsor, insurance company I think. They race at the same tracks as Sprint Cup (but not the same schedule, they do less races). The cars are roughly the same but don't make as much power, races are shorter. Its a stepping stone (like say F2 used to be years ago vs F1).
The truck series is almost a feeder series, rather than cars they race trucks (well, duh!), slower and shorter races again with a different schedule. Next year 16 year olds can run in trucks.
There are lesser affiliated series too (notably the K&N Series).
I wouldn't say there is a lack of technology - they actually understand and use aero a fair bit, they have fuel injection on board and in the future NASCAR as talked about having "digital dashboards" - the hint is that telemetry from the cars will be available to fans to look at whilst a race is going on. NASCAR excels in this area - on the website they have a thing called racebuddy that lets you follow your favourite driver on track, you get to hear his pit to car radio and watch the race from his car. *way* more advanced than F1.
Just because they don't make the entire chassis out of carbon fibre don't think they are luddites
this year Brad Keselowski (he won this year..) was both praised and then fined by NASCAR for using twitter on his phone from his car during red flags!
The other thing to keep in mind is that the racing is very close - more often than not going into the last 20 laps of a race there are any number of drivers who could win. It ain't over til the flag drops!
I found a fairly recent pic of a COT chassis:
I was poking around and found some old info sheets:
TL1000R said:
Wow, thanks Crafty. So to summarise cars are very similar technically so almost like a one make series I guess it's mainly about setup an the driver? With the championship 'the chase' sounds like the setup run in British superbikes the last couple of years. You race most of the year just for the while thing to start again with a few races to go for the top guys?
You said you'd concentrate on one series, I take the others run along a similar pattern but are slower/less advanced like the lower open wheel formulas we are used to seeing below F1?
The main thing that baffles me is the apparent lack of technology in this form of Motorsport. They almost seem very much against moving forward.
Setup and driver yes, but also the entire crew, especially the crew chief and the engineers.You said you'd concentrate on one series, I take the others run along a similar pattern but are slower/less advanced like the lower open wheel formulas we are used to seeing below F1?
The main thing that baffles me is the apparent lack of technology in this form of Motorsport. They almost seem very much against moving forward.
You can nail the setup in practice, but come the race its useless, so the ability to think on your feet and fix the car setup is vital.. A driver will complain about being tight or loose - understeer or oversteer to you. Knowing when to leave him struggling on track or bring him in and make an adjustment can make or break your race. Also the driver looking after the tyres and the crew monitoring tyre wear and fuel usage is critical. Cars have no fuel gauge and there is no telemetry for fuel level back to the pits, so the crew have to dead reckon usage.. which gets real fun if there is a caution and fuel usage drops..
The other series that NASCAR run is the Nationwide Series and the Camping World Truck Series. Nationwide is the sponsor, insurance company I think. They race at the same tracks as Sprint Cup (but not the same schedule, they do less races). The cars are roughly the same but don't make as much power, races are shorter. Its a stepping stone (like say F2 used to be years ago vs F1).
The truck series is almost a feeder series, rather than cars they race trucks (well, duh!), slower and shorter races again with a different schedule. Next year 16 year olds can run in trucks.
There are lesser affiliated series too (notably the K&N Series).
I wouldn't say there is a lack of technology - they actually understand and use aero a fair bit, they have fuel injection on board and in the future NASCAR as talked about having "digital dashboards" - the hint is that telemetry from the cars will be available to fans to look at whilst a race is going on. NASCAR excels in this area - on the website they have a thing called racebuddy that lets you follow your favourite driver on track, you get to hear his pit to car radio and watch the race from his car. *way* more advanced than F1.
Just because they don't make the entire chassis out of carbon fibre don't think they are luddites
this year Brad Keselowski (he won this year..) was both praised and then fined by NASCAR for using twitter on his phone from his car during red flags!
The other thing to keep in mind is that the racing is very close - more often than not going into the last 20 laps of a race there are any number of drivers who could win. It ain't over til the flag drops!
I found a fairly recent pic of a COT chassis:
I was poking around and found some old info sheets:
Crafty_ said:
No worries, my poor proof reading let it slip through
So we need to cover :
Cautions
The Lucky Dog
Penalties
Green/White Checkers
Drafting
Humour
And some history
Plus whatever else I've forgotten!
Cautions:So we need to cover :
Cautions
The Lucky Dog
Penalties
Green/White Checkers
Drafting
Humour
And some history
Plus whatever else I've forgotten!
Several kinds. For debris on the track, an accident, a statutory NASCAR caution this one occurs usually to check on tyre wear if the is any pre-race concerns over a new track surface or if bad weather procludes proper pre race testing and/;or qualifying.
Lucky Dog:
Before the 'Lucky dog' rule, cars raced to the start/finish line after a yellow flag caution was thrown in a bid to gain places. This was deemed to be potentially dangerous. So, the lucky dog rule was introduced. A lucky dog is the last car to be lapped by the leader of the race before a caution flag is thrown. He or she is allowed to make a free lap of the track to get his or her lap back and regain the lead lap. If no one has been lapped, there is no lucky dog.
Penalties:
These include speeding in pit lane, leaving without all the wheel lug nuts fastened, leaving you pit box with pit equipment attached to the car - usually a fuel filler tank, catch can or ride height adjuster wrench. Running over a wheel gun line. Too many men over the wall during a pit stop. Overtaking under the yellow line on certain tracks. Deliberately taking an opponent out. There are others.
Green/white/checker:
This can get complicated sometimes. There can be upto three attempts to finish a race under G/W/C If a yellow caution flag is thrown with so few laps left that the race would be ended under yellow, the G/W/C rule is used. A green is thrown at the start/finish line to restart the race. After one circuit the white "Final lap" flag is thrown and the checkered flag denoted the end of the race (naturally). If an incident occurs during the first two GWCs another attempt at a GWC is made.However, on the third attempt at a GWC, if an incident occurs before the end which necessitates a yellow flag, the race is called at the time of the yellow. Even though the leaders may not have made the finish line.
Drafting:
See above.
Humour:
Where to start?
I did attend the 2009 Daytona 500 wich was red flagged due to intermittent drizzle 50 laps from the end. There wasn't much humour amongst the 150,000 fans that day!
I'm sure that I've missed out loads. I'm off to bed.
Genuinely good insight into the sport, thanks!
I've often wanted to 'get into' NASCAR but find the TV scheduling difficult to follow - is there a set Sky channel that shows every race at a regular time in the UK?
Also, is there an event every weekend or is it spread out like F1?
Which are the 'Must Watch' races? Daytona, presumably, but others?
I've often wanted to 'get into' NASCAR but find the TV scheduling difficult to follow - is there a set Sky channel that shows every race at a regular time in the UK?
Also, is there an event every weekend or is it spread out like F1?
Which are the 'Must Watch' races? Daytona, presumably, but others?
Of interest to me on finding out about them:
They use incredibly assymmetric suspension geometry for "oval" tracks, so the car is actually set up to corner left and the driver steers right for the straights. They also set up the car to whack on even more left steering as you come off the throttle and the weight transfers to the front end, to pitch the car into the bend almost automatically. look at the geometry of the front end of a car in the pits, and you'll think it's been put into a wall, particularly noticeable on the left front.
The cars now have "spoilers" - large flaps in front of the windscreen, on the roof and on the tail. They are hinged and lie flat under normal conditions. They come into play if a car spins, they lift, trap air, and stop the car going airborne, to prevent the car from tumbling more than it has to and to dissipate energy faster. And a car at 200mph has a LOT of energy.
I wasn't a massive fan, but having watched the end of the season over here in Oz where it's on terrestrial telly, it's actually very close, very exciting and very tactical racing, with a big dollop of chaos and luck thrown in too. See the cars coming off the banking at 180ish mph with a huge sideways drift going on, and you realise that these are very talented drivers at the absolute ragged edge of the vehicles performance for much of the race.
They use incredibly assymmetric suspension geometry for "oval" tracks, so the car is actually set up to corner left and the driver steers right for the straights. They also set up the car to whack on even more left steering as you come off the throttle and the weight transfers to the front end, to pitch the car into the bend almost automatically. look at the geometry of the front end of a car in the pits, and you'll think it's been put into a wall, particularly noticeable on the left front.
The cars now have "spoilers" - large flaps in front of the windscreen, on the roof and on the tail. They are hinged and lie flat under normal conditions. They come into play if a car spins, they lift, trap air, and stop the car going airborne, to prevent the car from tumbling more than it has to and to dissipate energy faster. And a car at 200mph has a LOT of energy.
I wasn't a massive fan, but having watched the end of the season over here in Oz where it's on terrestrial telly, it's actually very close, very exciting and very tactical racing, with a big dollop of chaos and luck thrown in too. See the cars coming off the banking at 180ish mph with a huge sideways drift going on, and you realise that these are very talented drivers at the absolute ragged edge of the vehicles performance for much of the race.
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