Discussion
freedman said:
Rather nice farmhouse I believe etc etc, cant raise 50k? Simply not believable
1. In Lincolnshire.Edited by freedman on Monday 24th June 16:42
2. I know lots of people with a 'nice farmhouse' that couldn't rustle up £50,000 in cash to give to some fat, misanthropic t
t who decided that 'because you might have missed a gear' that he wanted £50,000 in cash. I, like almost 99% of people in the world, would do exactly as Hales did: Told him to fk off. Then Piper, being a moneyed sort of misanthrop, decided to get everyones favourite bottom-feeders involved: the lawyers.
Sure hope my kids and grandkids can see fabulous old racecars being tested on track by professionals, and photographed beautifully, rather than everyone collecting cars in garages under wraps because the owners can't drive them properly.
bqf said:
1. In Lincolnshire.
2. I know lots of people with a 'nice farmhouse' that couldn't rustle up £50,000 in cash to give to some fat, misanthropic tt who decided that 'because you might have missed a gear' that he wanted £50,000 in cash. I, like almost 99% of people in the world, would do exactly as Hales did: Told him to fk off.
Then Piper, being a moneyed sort of misanthrop, decided to get everyones favourite bottom-feeders involved: the lawyers.
Unfortunately the problem has moved on from missed a gear, gentleman's agreement etc. Now the court have decided in Piper's favour Hales has to either come up with the money or prove that he has no money or assets. I struggle to believe that a man of his age, with a successful career (or two) behind him can't (as opposed to really doesn't want to) come up with what is a relatively small amount of money (at least when compared to a lifetime's accrued assets and cash). If and when the bailiffs get involved all of their costs will be added to the debt, the problem just gets worse and worse.2. I know lots of people with a 'nice farmhouse' that couldn't rustle up £50,000 in cash to give to some fat, misanthropic t
t who decided that 'because you might have missed a gear' that he wanted £50,000 in cash. I, like almost 99% of people in the world, would do exactly as Hales did: Told him to fk off. Then Piper, being a moneyed sort of misanthrop, decided to get everyones favourite bottom-feeders involved: the lawyers.
I'd also be amazed if Hales' legal team weren't telling him to settle early on. In my experience the solicitors and barristers on both sides would have had a very good idea how the court case was going to end, despite public perception solicitors aren't in favour of fighting a losing battle to the bitter end.
bqf said:
1. In Lincolnshire.
2. I know lots of people with a 'nice farmhouse' that couldn't rustle up £50,000 in cash to give to some fat, misanthropic tt who decided that 'because you might have missed a gear' that he wanted £50,000 in cash. I, like almost 99% of people in the world, would do exactly as Hales did: Told him to fk off.
Then Piper, being a moneyed sort of misanthrop, decided to get everyones favourite bottom-feeders involved: the lawyers.
Sure hope my kids and grandkids can see fabulous old racecars being tested on track by professionals, and photographed beautifully, rather than everyone collecting cars in garages under wraps because the owners can't drive them properly.
You seem to have missed rather a large number of points here2. I know lots of people with a 'nice farmhouse' that couldn't rustle up £50,000 in cash to give to some fat, misanthropic t
t who decided that 'because you might have missed a gear' that he wanted £50,000 in cash. I, like almost 99% of people in the world, would do exactly as Hales did: Told him to fk off. Then Piper, being a moneyed sort of misanthrop, decided to get everyones favourite bottom-feeders involved: the lawyers.
Sure hope my kids and grandkids can see fabulous old racecars being tested on track by professionals, and photographed beautifully, rather than everyone collecting cars in garages under wraps because the owners can't drive them properly.
In Lincolnshire, so?, doesnt mean its only worth 50p
No one asked him for 50k cash there and then, he has had years to settle his debt, but dedided not to
Hales told Piper to f*ck off?, no he admitted liability when he believed his insureres awould pay out, then renaged when they told him to f*ck off
Piper has rented his cars out and driven them himself at Goodwood,and the like for many many years, so peoples kids can see them. And he can drive it properly, still
And your childish abuse of Piper says far more about you than he
freedman said:
You seem to have missed rather a large number of points here
In Lincolnshire, so?, doesnt mean its only worth 50p
No one asked him for 50k cash there and then, he has had years to settle his debt, but dedided not to
Hales told Piper to f*ck off?, no he admitted liability when he believed his insureres awould pay out, then renaged when they told him to f*ck off
Piper has rented his cars out and driven them himself at Goodwood,and the like for many many years, so peoples kids can see them. And he can drive it properly, still
And your childish abuse of Piper says far more about you than he
I'll help you with my points:In Lincolnshire, so?, doesnt mean its only worth 50p
No one asked him for 50k cash there and then, he has had years to settle his debt, but dedided not to
Hales told Piper to f*ck off?, no he admitted liability when he believed his insureres awould pay out, then renaged when they told him to f*ck off
Piper has rented his cars out and driven them himself at Goodwood,and the like for many many years, so peoples kids can see them. And he can drive it properly, still
And your childish abuse of Piper says far more about you than he
1. 'Nice farmhouses' in Lincolnshire are relatively cheaper than most of Southern England
2. £35,000 was the repair bill and this is what Hales was asked for, as far as I can tell from the report
3. I think Hales gave Piper the correct response - possibly not 'f
k off' but almost certainly 'I'm not paying' (rightly so)4. I'm sure that Pipers actions will damage the landscape for driving old competition cars
5. Someone willing to bankrupt a man just for the sheer hell of it rather than settle deserves far more than a little childish abuse
Are you Pipers lawyer?
bqf said:
5. Someone willing to bankrupt a man just for the sheer hell of it rather than settle deserves far more than a little childish abuse
So what was Hales settlement offer then?And if he does end up bankrupt, it will be the fault of only one person, Mark Hales, no matter how many victim cards he trys to play
freedman said:
Hales told Piper to f*ck off?, no he admitted liability when he believed his insureres awould pay out, then renaged when they told him to f*ck off
Again, I think you're taking a very polarised view. Imo Hales didn't do anything particularly wrong on the day he drove Piper's car. The 917 had a difficult gearchange when new and drivers missed gear changes then as they do now.
As we know there is evidence that on the day the car had an issue with the gearchange. Unfortunately for Hales he had difficulty in proving this in court. We all know that Hales has stated that the missed gearchange caused the problem, which is not untrue, but when it became clear the insurers weren't paying then Hales has also stated that the reason he missed the gearchange was because of a problem with the gearchange system, which I also consider to be not untrue.
Yes I know the court verdict is damning but I do believe that on another day with more expensive lawyers a completely different judgement may well be arrived at. It is almost invariably not the person who is in the right who wins in court but the person with the deepest pockets, and if your pockets are not very deep then you have to stay the hell away from a court, which is something Hales has acknowledged he should have done. I also think that anyone who takes a court verdict as gospel is either very naieve or is taking a polarised view for whatever reason.
Just for the record I have no problem with David Piper's view that he who bends, mends. It's a simple term to understand, and perhaps Had Mr Hales taken that fully on board then he would have stopped driving the car when it became clear that it really did have an issue with the gear change.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Monday 24th June 19:15
bqf said:
I'll help you with my points:
1. 'Nice farmhouses' in Lincolnshire are relatively cheaper than most of Southern England
But still not cheap.1. 'Nice farmhouses' in Lincolnshire are relatively cheaper than most of Southern England
This whole affair appears to be a litany of bad decisions, which show no sign of ending. If Hales has equity in his house or other assets he'll end up paying the original engine repair bill, the costs resulting from loss of use of the car, his legal fees, Piper's legal fees, and now whatever debt collector/bailiff fees arise from non-payment of the court order. Piper would appear to be intent on enforcing the court order, the only way for Hales to avoid payment is if he truly has no assets, if he has tried to move or hide assets then Piper's legal people will have a field day.
heebeegeetee said:
Yes I know the court verdict is damning but I do believe that on another day with more expensive lawyers a completely different judgement may well be arrived at. It is almost invariably not the person who is in the right who wins in court but the person with the deepest pockets, and if your pockets are not very deep then you have to stay the hell away from a court, which is something Hales has acknowledged he should have done. I also think that anyone who takes a court verdict as gospel is either very naieve or is taking a polarised view for whatever reason.
Going to court when he'd made a statement to the insurance company admitting liability was always going to end badly no matter how much his lawyers cost.hairykrishna said:
Going to court when he'd made a statement to the insurance company admitting liability was always going to end badly no matter how much his lawyers cost.
Indeed. He was either trying to pervert the course of justice or defraud the insurers. Neither give a particularly glowing reference, as the Judge made clear.hairykrishna said:
Going to court when he'd made a statement to the insurance company admitting liability was always going to end badly no matter how much his lawyers cost.
The judge said that on Hales' evidence alone he would have found him liable due to recklessness in continuing with the test after identifying a problem with the gearbox. He also said that Hales was 'a most unreliable witness whose evidence was creative, inconsistent, self motivated and incredible'.RYH64E said:
Piper would appear to be intent on enforcing the court order, the only way for Hales to avoid payment is if he truly has no assets, if he has tried to move or hide assets then Piper's legal people will have a field day.
If the bankruptcy order is enforced the IP assigned to the case will look at all the assets, they will also look at past assets and the disposal of them. If any assets have been 'moved' or sold off under market value - to family or close friends (for I think the past 2 years) - then an application can be made to have these reversed, this stops people knowingly moveing assets prior to bankruptcy. It can get very messy!!Slippydiff said:
Who was Hale's lawyer ?
Plenty of information here: http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/piperhales.pdfsanf said:
RYH64E said:
Piper would appear to be intent on enforcing the court order, the only way for Hales to avoid payment is if he truly has no assets, if he has tried to move or hide assets then Piper's legal people will have a field day.
If the bankruptcy order is enforced the IP assigned to the case will look at all the assets, they will also look at past assets and the disposal of them. If any assets have been 'moved' or sold off under market value - to family or close friends (for I think the past 2 years) - then an application can be made to have these reversed, this stops people knowingly moveing assets prior to bankruptcy. It can get very messy!!So is it the case that he's been petitioned for bankruptcy and the court hearing is next week?
The above poster is correct it will be all his assets that will be dealt with in the bankruptcy, including any equity in his house.
However, it will also be all his liabilities that are to be dealt with. It will be interesting to see who all his creditors are.
hairykrishna said:
Going to court when he'd made a statement to the insurance company admitting liability was always going to end badly no matter how much his lawyers cost.
This. Going to court after the admission was madness.
Hales should have bit the bullet & settled as soon as it was clear the insurers would not pay out.
Some posters seem to be missing the fact that Hales is a journalist who gets paid for his articles, I.e a business & as anyone with their own business will know, you get a watertight contract & insure where possible to minimise risk to yourself.
Also, who knows what exchanges took place between Hales & Piper?
Piper may well be fully justified in his actions.
freedman said:
bqf said:
5. Someone willing to bankrupt a man just for the sheer hell of it rather than settle deserves far more than a little childish abuse
So what was Hales settlement offer then?And if he does end up bankrupt, it will be the fault of only one person, Mark Hales, no matter how many victim cards he trys to play
I suspect you have some strong connection to Piper.
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