BTCC's Frank Wrathall in court after cyclist collision
Discussion
RemarkLima said:
Nice, thanks for diminishing my diminishing helmsmanship abilities even further.
<snip>
In fact, I'd go so far as if you have to "consciously think" about driving, then you're probably not that competent either /Devils advocate
IMHO, this and this story all come down to "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
I wasn't really meaning to diminish your helmsmanship abilities further was just pondering a point really.<snip>
In fact, I'd go so far as if you have to "consciously think" about driving, then you're probably not that competent either /Devils advocate
IMHO, this and this story all come down to "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
I think there is an argument that some are better natural drivers than others and indeed I suspect there are many of us have who have been lucky to recover a situation that could have been disastrous.
My own view is that driving is far too easy these days. Cars are confortable, they have air conditioning, they have comfy seats, decent radios/stereos, they have power steering, assisted breaks etc. All of these things make a car far easier to drive and as a result as drivers we have to concentrate on the actual driving less. The result is allowing the mind to think of other things and thats where it all starts to go wrong.
I remember some, BBC documentary I think, a few months back that was covering this where the presenter was driving the sort of car from the 60’s he had passed his test in. His remarks where that he was driving slower in it than he normally does in a current car because he felt unsafe.
MGJohn said:
Have you ever told a passenger to button it as it was distracting and disturbing your concentration? I have and will do so again when necessary.
A passenger can also see what's going on around the car and has a personal stake in not crashing...
I'll answer on bluetooth but I'll normally just say "driving, I'll ring you back".
majordad said:
Pilots are talking constantly while flying, IMHO while talking on a hands held unit does move up your risk of an accident , some of us can multitask safely. Surely having an animated conversation with a passenger is as bad then ?
I'll dig out the research but they found otherwise, if I recall correctly - it took much more concentration to focus on a telephone call than a passenger dialogue, IIRC.Also pilots are a bad analogy - there are often 2 of them - and they are much better trained than drivers and the ones that can't multitask were weeded out.
By yes some drivers could, but you could not test for it and apply the law easily.
Also the pilots will, or should, be using the radio to discuss the progress of the flight with ATC or pilots of other aircraft. Not, as it is alleged, having a conversation with the other half or trying to sort out business. Therefor they would still be thinking about what they are supposed to be doing.
Reardy Mister said:
Consider also the myriad of other mitigating factors:
Mitigating factors are, of course, only taken in to account once guilt has been established. Aggravating factors are also then taken in to account like speed, whether towing etc- the other party may be over the blood alcohol limit
- the other party may have come off into the road and been fine, but been struck by another vehicle once there
- the other party may have ignored the vehicle's signalled intention to left and moved up the left side of the vehicle into its blind spot, in the time between the driver last looking and making the turn
- the cyclist may have no lights on in the dark etc etc
jamescodriver said:
Being cynical here, does he keep racing this year in the vain hope he's doing well in the championship and thus plead to avoid prison?
No, he's just trying to get on with his life: not racing won't change anything, will it? As outlined previously, the trial's been pushed into next year anyway, & he may not be found guilty - then what?A better analogy between phone use in cars is the use of car radios by the police, emergency services. However, even that is not too close because, as with pilots -
the conversation is usually directly linked with the task in hand
the radio is handled by a second person
Flying is also a fundamentally different task with different types of concentration and awareness being involved.
One factor that is very noticeable about having an in depth telephone conversation is that the world around you kind of "zones out". You become very involved in the topic of the call and you almost start imagining that you can see the person you are talking too.
I am sure this "imagining" of the person and the conversation that goes on in your head is because the other party is not physically present and the human brain invents their image in order to enable you to engage properly.
You will notice people on the phone will even use hand movements, facial expressions and other body language. - even though the other person obviously can't see any of this animated activity. I know I do.
Speaking to someone on the phone can become an extremely involved activity and I think it absorbs a huge amount of brain power - much more than making a casual comment to a passenger in the car or listening to the radio.
I have seen a number of demonstrations and tests on various TV programmes using car simulators where reaction times have been measured when driving normally and when driving using a phone. The difference in reaction time was shocking and was on a par with someone having consumed a couple of pints of beer.
the conversation is usually directly linked with the task in hand
the radio is handled by a second person
Flying is also a fundamentally different task with different types of concentration and awareness being involved.
One factor that is very noticeable about having an in depth telephone conversation is that the world around you kind of "zones out". You become very involved in the topic of the call and you almost start imagining that you can see the person you are talking too.
I am sure this "imagining" of the person and the conversation that goes on in your head is because the other party is not physically present and the human brain invents their image in order to enable you to engage properly.
You will notice people on the phone will even use hand movements, facial expressions and other body language. - even though the other person obviously can't see any of this animated activity. I know I do.
Speaking to someone on the phone can become an extremely involved activity and I think it absorbs a huge amount of brain power - much more than making a casual comment to a passenger in the car or listening to the radio.
I have seen a number of demonstrations and tests on various TV programmes using car simulators where reaction times have been measured when driving normally and when driving using a phone. The difference in reaction time was shocking and was on a par with someone having consumed a couple of pints of beer.
Eric Mc said:
A better analogy between phone use in cars is the use of car radios by the police, emergency services. However, even that is not too close because, as with pilots -
the conversation is usually directly linked with the task in hand
the radio is handled by a second person
Flying is also a fundamentally different task with different types of concentration and awareness being involved.
One factor that is very noticeable about having an in depth telephone conversation is that the world around you kind of "zones out". You become very involved in the topic of the call and you almost start imagining that you can see the person you are talking too.
I am sure this "imagining" of the person and the conversation that goes on in your head is because the other party is not physically present and the human brain invents their image in order to enable you to engage properly.
You will notice people on the phone will even use hand movements, facial expressions and other body language. - even though the other person obviously can't see any of this animated activity. I know I do.
Speaking to someone on the phone can become an extremely involved activity and I think it absorbs a huge amount of brain power - much more than making a casual comment to a passenger in the car or listening to the radio.
I have seen a number of demonstrations and tests on various TV programmes using car simulators where reaction times have been measured when driving normally and when driving using a phone. The difference in reaction time was shocking and was on a par with someone having consumed a couple of pints of beer.
Don't forget they have radios in the BTCC, so the drivers could be having quite an in-depth conversations on the radio while racing.the conversation is usually directly linked with the task in hand
the radio is handled by a second person
Flying is also a fundamentally different task with different types of concentration and awareness being involved.
One factor that is very noticeable about having an in depth telephone conversation is that the world around you kind of "zones out". You become very involved in the topic of the call and you almost start imagining that you can see the person you are talking too.
I am sure this "imagining" of the person and the conversation that goes on in your head is because the other party is not physically present and the human brain invents their image in order to enable you to engage properly.
You will notice people on the phone will even use hand movements, facial expressions and other body language. - even though the other person obviously can't see any of this animated activity. I know I do.
Speaking to someone on the phone can become an extremely involved activity and I think it absorbs a huge amount of brain power - much more than making a casual comment to a passenger in the car or listening to the radio.
I have seen a number of demonstrations and tests on various TV programmes using car simulators where reaction times have been measured when driving normally and when driving using a phone. The difference in reaction time was shocking and was on a par with someone having consumed a couple of pints of beer.
airbusA346 said:
Don't forget they have radios in the BTCC, so the drivers could be having quite an in-depth conversations on the radio while racing.
And they generally aren't having a full blown involved conversation about marketing strategy or what having a discussion about what should be on the menu for that evening's dinner.With regard to emergency services transmissions:
For Fire Appliances, the OIC (in the passenger seat) handles comms on the move. Officer cars are fitted with full handsfree systems for their radios. They are TRAINED to use them.
For Police vehicles - cars are fitted with handsfree systems for use by the driver, where the vehicle is double-manned, the passenger will do the talking. If you see a police officer talking into the radio on his lapel - he is breaking the law - why? - because the Airwave radios used by the emergency services are capable of making telephone calls, and have been declared as "mobile telephony devices" and are covered by the sections of the RTA that are being used against Frank.
For Ambulance vehicles - same as Police and Fire. All vehicles are fitted with handsfree. Anyone using a handheld radio whilst driving is breaking the law.
Now - back to Frank. He's done it, he's got no excuse. He's going to jail. 5-7 years is the normal term. it COULD be up to 14 years.
I'd also expect the MSA to ban him for a number of years too. It doesn't set a very good example.
A very very sad chain of events. Mostly for the poor guy killed and his family. Something Frank will have to live with for the rest of his life too.
For Fire Appliances, the OIC (in the passenger seat) handles comms on the move. Officer cars are fitted with full handsfree systems for their radios. They are TRAINED to use them.
For Police vehicles - cars are fitted with handsfree systems for use by the driver, where the vehicle is double-manned, the passenger will do the talking. If you see a police officer talking into the radio on his lapel - he is breaking the law - why? - because the Airwave radios used by the emergency services are capable of making telephone calls, and have been declared as "mobile telephony devices" and are covered by the sections of the RTA that are being used against Frank.
For Ambulance vehicles - same as Police and Fire. All vehicles are fitted with handsfree. Anyone using a handheld radio whilst driving is breaking the law.
Now - back to Frank. He's done it, he's got no excuse. He's going to jail. 5-7 years is the normal term. it COULD be up to 14 years.
I'd also expect the MSA to ban him for a number of years too. It doesn't set a very good example.
A very very sad chain of events. Mostly for the poor guy killed and his family. Something Frank will have to live with for the rest of his life too.
Eric Mc said:
airbusA346 said:
Don't forget they have radios in the BTCC, so the drivers could be having quite an in-depth conversations on the radio while racing.
And they generally aren't having a full blown involved conversation about marketing strategy or what having a discussion about what should be on the menu for that evening's dinner.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff