RE: Circuit of Wales 'unviable' says Silverstone

[keefr22]

"Is this not at the bottom of the Brecon Beacons?.....all well and good building a circuit, but if no one can get to it because there are no flipping road going there, what is the point!

Silverstone is just about as central at gets and has major road networks coming from all directions.

Silly"

It's not all dirt tracks down here now boyo...!!

From the heart of the universe (i.e London!) - off the M4 at Cardiff, A470, A4060 & A465 - most of which are now dualled. Coming from the Midlands? M50, A40 all the way. South West? M5, M4 & in. Damn sight easier than it is for me (& many others) to get to Silverstone. And which, in my opinion, is probably the most boring circuit in the UK....

But it will all be irrelevant if the MSA's campaign to get closed roads motorsport on mainland UK succeeds anyway...!!

[jmorgan]

Maybe if the gas and air shop in Cardiff Bay sold the airport they bought, that was around 50 million.


Hang on, airport, half a race track already there.....

[mk1fan]

M4 only just copes with the traffic heading to and from Cardif when a 'big match' is on. And the sub roads have a lot of junctions. If the project were to go ahead and [let's be positive] 30,000 spectators need to come and go then it won't take much to have big jams.

That said, assuming it can run 7-days a week and the noise restrictions aren't stupid then it does have the potential for a cracking, undulating circuit (like Oulton Park) for those that like trackdays.

I've booked Anglesey on the 7th of July but will need to find a hotel for the night before. An on site Premier Inn or similar would be great

[keefr22]

mk1fan]M4 only just copes with the traffic heading to and from Cardif when a 'big match' is on. And the sub roads have a lot of junctions. If the project were to go ahead and [let's be positive said:

30,000 spectators need to come and go then it won't take much to have big jams.

'Big match' is 70K rather than 30K though... And those coming by road will almost all use the M4, wouldn't necessarily be the case to CoW.

[DreadUK]

With F1 cars being as quiet as they are now, we could get the British GP back to Brands, the local authority could hardly object, my electric mower is louder. Great road network, natural amphitheatre, round the corner from me...Oops.

Seriously though, Silverstone is pants if you're spectating because it's so damn flat and access is just dreadful. Or at least it was last time I was there......erm....25 years ago???????

[keefr22]

jmorgan said:

Hang on, airport, half a race track already there.....

Too flat. And Llandow's just down the road...!!

[mk1fan]

keefr22 said:

'Big match' is 70K rather than 30K though... And those coming by road will almost all use the M4, wouldn't necessarily be the case to CoW.

I meant 30k spectators to/from the new circuit, in addition to the current volume of traffic. And while I agree not all will be heading to the M4 I suspect a good proportion would be, say a third. Add that to spectators to a 'big match' (that already cause jams on the m4) plus the M5 junction after the bridge and that's a quite significant additional load onto an already stretched section of motorway.

That said, most circuits suffer from traffic problems as people leave en mass.

[oldtimer2]

Silverstone is right to oppose a subsidy to create a new race circuit. The effect would be to damage other circuits that must survive without a subsidy. We are over taxed as it is, the country is bust and only kept afloat by printing more money (QE) and new motor circuits at taxpayers expense is the last thing the nation needs.

[zebedee]

DreadUK said:

With F1 cars being as quiet as they are now, we could get the British GP back to Brands, the local authority could hardly object, my electric mower is louder. Great road network, natural amphitheatre, round the corner from me...Oops.

Seriously though, Silverstone is pants if you're spectating because it's so damn flat and access is just dreadful. Or at least it was last time I was there......erm....25 years ago???????

and it has no atmosphere and is full of metal fences, bollards and gravel, like a building site, with buses running around the place and (although irrelevant to most) a media centre with no windows which makes covering events there a truly abysmal experience. Silverstone should get their own ship in order really, it is embarrassing to have it as our natural circuit (though the drivers still love the track!)

[P-Jay]

big_boz said:

Is this not at the bottom of the Brecon Beacons?.....all well and good building a circuit, but if no one can get to it because there are no flipping road going there, what is the point!

Silverstone is just about as central at gets and has major road networks coming from all directions.

Silly

It's about 30 mins from the M4 by A road which isn't terrible, they could brown sign traffic through some of the stuff they put in place for the Ryder Cup I'd guess if it became a huge draw.

[DonkeyApple]

framerateuk said:

That said, having spoken to someone in the know, the top people involved are business men, and have no interest at all in motorsport. They must think they have some sort of chance of making their money back if they're willing to pursue it?

Indeed. You suck out all the investment as fees over a 5 year period and then walk away having all made several million for just filing a few applications. Business is about making money and the easiest money often comes from having no intention to deliver a profitable business but from the most efficient conversion of investment funds into fees, salaries, personal contracts and pension contributions.

[Shadow R1]

Its ment to be hosting the moto gp in 2015, has any building work started at all........................ no.
Its all smoke and mirrors.

Even with nothing, its still in a better financial state than Silverstone.

[F40GT346]

I am a huge motorsport fan but think tis is a bad idea. There are a limited number of race series and events that draw large enough crowds to generate incomes for the circuits and if these are spread too thinly then there isnt enough to maintain the circuits we already have. The UK is already blessed with many fine "short racing" circuits so I cant see the point in building another one.

On the other hand, if they wanted to build a nice 20 mile loop around the welsh hills aimed at the track day market, that is something I would support!

Edited by F40GT346 on Tuesday 25th March 20:59

[radio man]

lamboman100 said:

big_boz said:

Is this not at the bottom of the Brecon Beacons?.....all well and good building a circuit, but if no one can get to it because there are no flipping road going there, what is the point!

Silverstone is just about as central at gets and has major road networks coming from all directions.

Silly

Ah, Wales... That economic powerhouse with all the best ideas.

I know what we can do to improve her... let's build a high-cost, low-profit racetrack in the one of the rainiest, dampest, un-sunniest parts of Britain... make sure we build on the edge of the main road network and far away from major airports... that should do it ;-)

lambo100, I shall be kind and not think that you are sarcastic or racist and just think you are ignorant.
As a proud Englishman who has lived in Wales for 30 yrs I find the country beautiful and the people friendly and kind, we have lush green countryside because it rains and when it rains it tends to be "un-sunny" or cloudy to those of us who don't invent new words. Wales is not an " economic powerhouse" because Maggie ripped the heart out of it and it has struggled to recover but it is doing so and proposals such as the "circuit of Wales" can only help regenerate the area and the local economy and hopefully make a big impact on local unemployment.
Other people have moaned about possible government subsidies are these any different to the subsidies being given to Seimens to construct a facility to make wind turbines on Humberside for the North Sea , Oh I forgot it's ok because that is in England.
I find it hard to believe that motor sport fans can whinge about the possible construction of a new venue, I understand why Silverstone are not happy as they lost £3.7 million last year, but I think that the fans should welcome the idea. Anyway I doubt that our opinions will effect the outcome.

[Oddball RS]

Silverstone = Me me me me me me, please sir!!!

[lamboman100]

radio man said:

lamboman100 said:

big_boz said:

Is this not at the bottom of the Brecon Beacons?.....all well and good building a circuit, but if no one can get to it because there are no flipping road going there, what is the point!

Silverstone is just about as central at gets and has major road networks coming from all directions.

Silly

Ah, Wales... That economic powerhouse with all the best ideas.

I know what we can do to improve her... let's build a high-cost, low-profit racetrack in the one of the rainiest, dampest, un-sunniest parts of Britain... make sure we build on the edge of the main road network and far away from major airports... that should do it ;-)

lambo100, I shall be kind and not think that you are sarcastic or racist and just think you are ignorant.
As a proud Englishman who has lived in Wales for 30 yrs I find the country beautiful and the people friendly and kind, we have lush green countryside because it rains and when it rains it tends to be "un-sunny" or cloudy to those of us who don't invent new words. Wales is not an " economic powerhouse" because Maggie ripped the heart out of it and it has struggled to recover but it is doing so and proposals such as the "circuit of Wales" can only help regenerate the area and the local economy and hopefully make a big impact on local unemployment.
Other people have moaned about possible government subsidies are these any different to the subsidies being given to Seimens to construct a facility to make wind turbines on Humberside for the North Sea , Oh I forgot it's ok because that is in England.
I find it hard to believe that motor sport fans can whinge about the possible construction of a new venue, I understand why Silverstone are not happy as they lost £3.7 million last year, but I think that the fans should welcome the idea. Anyway I doubt that our opinions will effect the outcome.

Wales has been in economic decline since about 1900. Long before Maggie arrived in the 1980s. Wales has been fading for a century. It's not a new thing.

The bottom line here is that building a racetrack in one of the wettest, dampest, windiest, greyest, remotest parts of Britain is crazy. Wales is putting dreams and pride ahead of economic reality.

Wales needs to go back to the drawing board and get creative and look to see if it can develop wealth in other fast-growing areas for the future, like driverless vehicles or pilotless drones.

[DonkeyApple]

radio man said:

lambo100, I shall be kind and not think that you are sarcastic or racist and just think you are ignorant.
As a proud Englishman who has lived in Wales for 30 yrs I find the country beautiful and the people friendly and kind, we have lush green countryside because it rains and when it rains it tends to be "un-sunny" or cloudy to those of us who don't invent new words. Wales is not an " economic powerhouse" because Maggie ripped the heart out of it and it has struggled to recover but it is doing so and proposals such as the "circuit of Wales" can only help regenerate the area and the local economy and hopefully make a big impact on local unemployment.
Other people have moaned about possible government subsidies are these any different to the subsidies being given to Seimens to construct a facility to make wind turbines on Humberside for the North Sea , Oh I forgot it's ok because that is in England.
I find it hard to believe that motor sport fans can whinge about the possible construction of a new venue, I understand why Silverstone are not happy as they lost £3.7 million last year, but I think that the fans should welcome the idea. Anyway I doubt that our opinions will effect the outcome.

With many of the incumbent UK circuits struggling to remain open, maybe there is a view that as motorsport fans we don't want to jeopardise the loss of any more by the opening of a subsidised new circuit that could take market share from the already limited pool by being able to undercut due to the subs.

It isn't a clear cut as it first seems and in reality, it may well be that the worst thing for UK motorsport could be another circuit.

[Dimski]

The thing is, they claim that of the £300 million or so needed, they've got £270 million of private funding secured and 'only' need £30 million from the Welsh Assembly's purse.

However, initially they claimed it was fully funded, and now it needs money. Also, they claim confidentiality agreements prevent them disclosing ANY of the private investors, but none (AFAIK) have announced involvement. None. Not a single sausage shouting about their company/firm/investment helping to create jobs in a deprived area. That does seem a little odd to me. Before considering any public investment further, they need to know stuff like this.

There was a good Week in Week out BBC programme on this 2 weeks ago (not on iplayer unfortunately) and to be honest, having been quite keen on the idea I'm now against it until they can release more information about their funding.

Given some of the projects that the Welsh Assembly have supported in the past, I'd hope they've learnt their lesson and don't dip their hands in their pockets until they know the full story.

[anonymous-user]

lamboman100 said:

The bottom line here is that building a racetrack in one of the wettest, dampest, windiest, greyest, remotest parts of Britain is crazy. Wales is putting dreams and pride ahead of economic reality.

I am a Welshman, from the valleys no less. This man speaks the truth, and the only reason to put a race track on the proposed site is because it's so bleak and horrible up there that it's no good for anything else.

[Hellbound]

As someone who's spent most of his life in Wales, I can say that the area in question would benefit far more from a much improved railway network and also that much talked about line from Cardiff to London in 40mins. That single improvement to infrastructure alone would improve much of South Wales. But it will never happen. Why? Because the people who run Wales are caught between London and their own ego's.


Wales needs to find st loads of oil and gas...and pretty sharphish.