RE: Closed road motorsport: approved!
Discussion
velocemitch said:
FisiP1 said:
velocemitch said:
Welshwonder said:
FisiP1 said:
Stuff about night rallies.
The organising club isn't allowed to close the road. Hence this new legislation.If there are people practicing the route then take down their reg no's and report them to the club. They will be (or should be) very keen to hear about it. The regs are quite clear that no testing is allowed.
Good news about the change in law. I look forward to seeing a proper tarmac rally without having to cross the sea! Just a shame the WRC cars are so dull.
I Don't think the new legislation has got anything at all to do with Road Rallying though, in fact I doubt the people who debated it even know it exists (well the ones that have a holiday cottage in Wales might!). Certainly MSA haven't pushed for this to help Clubs close the roads at night, because that isn't what the Clubs or MSA want. If anything the effect will be the exact opposite and it will be very difficult to continue to justify a branch of Rallying which has more Historic right to the name than sanitised modern Stage Rallies and is the only affordable way to compete for hundreds of enthusiasts.
I'm clearly no fan of this form of motorsport myself, but I'm perfectly aware that others love it, and on that basis I have no objection to it continuing so long as some of the safety concerns that I raised can be either dealt with in this new legislation, or that similar problems elsewhere that could potentially be caused by this legislation can be avoided before any events begin. My post was based on a wish to transmit some opinions based on living somewhere with a race/rally whatever you would like to call it going past my home already.
I feel sorry for any unsuspecting visitors to the area arriving late at night and having to drive against the flow of one of these rallies unknowingly. I do feel that is wrong, and as I mentioned, a number of years back there was a fatal accident nearby during one of these events owing to a collision involving a rally car and a member of the public driving a relative to hospital. If this legislation helps avoid such situations, then great.
Unfortunately, although I can understand that the organizing club has no intention of turning the road into a magnet for people testing/practicing etc, that is exactly what has happened here. Again, whatever the upshot of the legislation, it shouldn't be hard even for rally supporters to agree that advertising a race on a public road is going to run the risk of attracting a less conscientious enthusiast. Hence my call to ensure such events are policed appropriately both during, and also for a responsible long-term period before/after the race.
That is a much more balanced post than your previous one so on that basis I will explain what I meant.
The event you are referring to was a Road Rally, run on open public Roads at night, the Legislation is nothing to do with this type of event it is meant to pave the way for the possibility of closing the roads and lifting the Traffic laws for Motorsport. This would enable Special Stage Rallies on stretches of public Road in the same way as is common in Ireland the Isle of Man and parts of Scotland and the Borders...
You can tell I'm not a great fan of the local road rallies, but by no means would I go so far as to argue they should be stopped. My comments concerning the forestry roads were inflected in a clarkson-esque way, but I understand that probably didn't come though!
In all honesty though, the noise does seem a bit unnecessary(it really is absolutely deafening, and that's coming from an F1/airshow fan, there's no way in hell they'd get onto a trackday), but I don't want to stop anyone having their fun so long as they are not putting others at undue risk. I do think there is a case to be made for enforcing some road closures/diversions around here during the events, but I can equally understand this may not be in the best interest of the clubs and their members. Offer them the powers to do so, but don't turn it into an extra layer of red tape may be the best solution?
Mostly I wanted to offer some observations for the benefit of any potential new events being started up in areas not used to road-based motorsports of any kind. Especially, there needs to be policing to guard against the unscrupulous testing/practicing of certain 'competitors' outside of designated event times/dates. My worry is that this kind of unsanctioned behavior that unfortunately seems to be attracted to the courses of local road rallies might also become a problem for organisers of separate other genres of motorsport that this legislation spawns. It is nothing inherently wrong with road rallies themselves, only the reality that turning any road into a course is to a lesser or greater extent going to attract the wrong sort of enthusiast from time to time. There is therefore a lesson to be learned here, that any new tracks/courses need to be visibly and responsibly policed outside of event times.
Edited by FisiP1 on Sunday 13th July 00:20
Yes good point, it's an accepted fact that a lot of the problems created by road rallies, particularly in Wales are due to the spectators ',having a go' either on the night or afterwards. They are not then subject to any of the rules the competitors are and will infringe black spots and drive noisily in the designated quiet areas at will. this by the way is really only a problem in Wales as the English events don't attract anywhere near the number of spectators.
It would be interesting to know if the areas around the Jim Clark rally in the Borders have a problem during the periods when the event isn't actually running. Having visited the area a lot, it's not something that is obvious.
noise Limits for road rally cars are set at 98db, at 1metres. Or 86db at 2 metres. Significantly lower than saloon car racing which is 105db and 93 db. (Stage rally is 100 and 88) Cant say what track day limits are, but like I said earlier you don't spend track days at maximum revs in 1st 2nd and 3rd and the noise isn't bouncing off stone walls and trees etc. Noise is without doubt a major issue and would be for closed roads stuff too, we as enthusiasts might love the sounds but the public will quickly tire of it.
It would be interesting to know if the areas around the Jim Clark rally in the Borders have a problem during the periods when the event isn't actually running. Having visited the area a lot, it's not something that is obvious.
noise Limits for road rally cars are set at 98db, at 1metres. Or 86db at 2 metres. Significantly lower than saloon car racing which is 105db and 93 db. (Stage rally is 100 and 88) Cant say what track day limits are, but like I said earlier you don't spend track days at maximum revs in 1st 2nd and 3rd and the noise isn't bouncing off stone walls and trees etc. Noise is without doubt a major issue and would be for closed roads stuff too, we as enthusiasts might love the sounds but the public will quickly tire of it.
lamboman100 said:
This decision today will almost certainly push one or more major UK racetracks into financial losses or bankruptcy during 2015 to 2025.
There will now be *huge oversupply* of motorsport racetracks. For example, if Silverstone loses the UK F1 Grand Prix to Central London, Silverstone will lose millions and could quickly be in trouble.
The decision to allow street-racing looks economically naïve.
I disagree. Take something like the BTCC for example. If they had a weekend once a year in Birmingham you can imagine the ridiculous crowds that would turn up, and the TV viewing figures would probably get it back on ITV1. Ker-ching.There will now be *huge oversupply* of motorsport racetracks. For example, if Silverstone loses the UK F1 Grand Prix to Central London, Silverstone will lose millions and could quickly be in trouble.
The decision to allow street-racing looks economically naïve.
The extra revenue goes to BTCC, which then would get back to the teams in prize money, which then gets spent with suppliers, and so on, and so forth. The trickle down will help the whole industry.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Matey, The Oxted Pram Race where I live closes many roads for a similar thing, might be worth contacting the organisers to get some advice on who really pulls the strings.
Brilliant cheers for that. I did manage to speak to a really helpful person at the council today so that's one step forward but I will keep in mind your suggestion.Cancelled for 2015 yes, but hopefully to regroup. The promoters have been dumped and hopefully MSA will get there act together and sort it out for 2016. BTRDA Championship is still going well though, much more relevant to the majority of competitors than the BRC.
The promoters of the British Historic Rally Championship (HRCR) have got the boot too, though the RAC Rally Championship will now run it for the next five years (properly).
The promoters of the British Historic Rally Championship (HRCR) have got the boot too, though the RAC Rally Championship will now run it for the next five years (properly).
Good news, any more freedom is refreshing.
With events like Jim Clark Rally, RAC Rally (and even the Tour de France stages, admittedly not motorsport but dozens of motorised support vehicles larging it on the wrong side of the road, over the speed limit and through red lights!) and other events closing roads already, it does make you wonder what difference this will make? Strikes me you can get roads closed for an event if you have the ear of the people in the know already!
So, do you think we might see the Matlock Bath TT
With events like Jim Clark Rally, RAC Rally (and even the Tour de France stages, admittedly not motorsport but dozens of motorised support vehicles larging it on the wrong side of the road, over the speed limit and through red lights!) and other events closing roads already, it does make you wonder what difference this will make? Strikes me you can get roads closed for an event if you have the ear of the people in the know already!
So, do you think we might see the Matlock Bath TT
davepoth said:
I disagree. Take something like the BTCC for example. If they had a weekend once a year in Birmingham you can imagine the ridiculous crowds that would turn up, and the TV viewing figures would probably get it back on ITV1. Ker-ching.
The extra revenue goes to BTCC, which then would get back to the teams in prize money, which then gets spent with suppliers, and so on, and so forth. The trickle down will help the whole industry.
BTCC would be the perfect "test" for any new road tracks I would have thought, and surely Birmingham would be the place to begin.The extra revenue goes to BTCC, which then would get back to the teams in prize money, which then gets spent with suppliers, and so on, and so forth. The trickle down will help the whole industry.
This also gives a bit of scope to the Battersea Park Formula E race too.
I doubt there'll ever be a London GP. Logistically its just too much of a nightmare.
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