F3 - the Glory Days
Discussion
I think it is much more nuanced than a direct link with the economy although it is undoubtedly a factor. Fact is , most cash and most public interest goes to F1 and what's left is thinly spread. 30 years ago or so it may have been worthwhile getting your company's name on a F3 car as plenty were watching and magazines like Autosport covered the F3 series in detail as next season's F1 debutants would often come from British F3 . But now...nobody outside the real hardcore fan base has heard of F3, let alone bothers to watch it even if you were lucky enough to find a race to attend. Autosport is virtually an F1 fanzine apart from Marcus Pye's valiant efforts and , as said too many people in the sport think they have to own a humungous new transporter to impress the neighbours with...
I guess the nature of the beat is part of the problem. You try and create a level playing field and immediately everyone is looking for an edge. Part of the psyche in all sports seems to be that anything that is not specifically excluded is allowed, and that always leads to mor eexpense as competitors endeavour to maximise any advantage they can get. Mind you, shiny transporters are very exxy too. Whatever happened to the converted clapped out Bedford Vega Major?
The simple answer to the British F3 problem is that it got too big for its boots.
It tried to go european when there was already (an arguably stronger) Euro series. The costs escalated and GP3 came along for similar money but staged in front F1 eyes. Where's your buddy young driver's dads money going to go?? In front of a few dozen fans, or the F1 circus (I hate that phrase...)
Now F3 is returning to the likes of brand, Thruxton, Outlon, Donington and so on, I believe it will pick up.
An additional note on The shiney trailers that are increasingly de-rigur (sp?), I worked on a team with a driver who paid A LOT of cash for the seat, and his Dad, who was a very nice, friendly bloke, stated he would be moving teams in the next year because we did not offer hospitality... For his money he wanted a hospo trailer to sit in... That's why teams often have no choice but to invest in ott trialers. Then it's the usual story of one team doing something new, then EVERYONE suddenly wants it and it quickly becomes the norm.
And that principle goes for F3 development parts. If you bolted something new on, and it didn't prove to make the car faster, you left it on anayway just to make other teams think you had the next best go-faster trick bit... And it spirals...
It tried to go european when there was already (an arguably stronger) Euro series. The costs escalated and GP3 came along for similar money but staged in front F1 eyes. Where's your buddy young driver's dads money going to go?? In front of a few dozen fans, or the F1 circus (I hate that phrase...)
Now F3 is returning to the likes of brand, Thruxton, Outlon, Donington and so on, I believe it will pick up.
An additional note on The shiney trailers that are increasingly de-rigur (sp?), I worked on a team with a driver who paid A LOT of cash for the seat, and his Dad, who was a very nice, friendly bloke, stated he would be moving teams in the next year because we did not offer hospitality... For his money he wanted a hospo trailer to sit in... That's why teams often have no choice but to invest in ott trialers. Then it's the usual story of one team doing something new, then EVERYONE suddenly wants it and it quickly becomes the norm.
And that principle goes for F3 development parts. If you bolted something new on, and it didn't prove to make the car faster, you left it on anayway just to make other teams think you had the next best go-faster trick bit... And it spirals...
I've been thinking about this recently, and could it not be because of the cars or the budgets, but because the British circuits aren't seen as relevant by a lot of career drivers in single seaters any more?
Back as recently as the 90's tracks like Donny and Brands Hatch were either F1 standard circuits or similar to they type raced on in F1, so were a good training ground for the drivers to learn on. Now with these Tilke tracks with massive straights and long, fast corners, the British circuits are almost the polar opposite, mostly tight and twisty. If I were a career driver and had the budget for F3, i'd head for the continent and race euro F3 instead which visits I think 6 GP tracks this year. I know British F3 tried the approach of racing on more gp circuits over the channel but that didn't work because Euro f3 still existed and offered it in a better package.
Back as recently as the 90's tracks like Donny and Brands Hatch were either F1 standard circuits or similar to they type raced on in F1, so were a good training ground for the drivers to learn on. Now with these Tilke tracks with massive straights and long, fast corners, the British circuits are almost the polar opposite, mostly tight and twisty. If I were a career driver and had the budget for F3, i'd head for the continent and race euro F3 instead which visits I think 6 GP tracks this year. I know British F3 tried the approach of racing on more gp circuits over the channel but that didn't work because Euro f3 still existed and offered it in a better package.
That's a valid point. What I would say, (partly devils advocate here..) is that a good driver will be able to learn the circuit quickly. What F3 on UK circuits does is teach them how to race, and how to not crash. I've run drivers who have not been to a track before and are instantly fast. That's the difference between a good driver and a properly skilled driver.
In addition, every man and his dog has a simulator now, so most drivers have access to a sim to learn tracks.
In addition, every man and his dog has a simulator now, so most drivers have access to a sim to learn tracks.
The foreign circuit thing was Stephane Ratel's idea wasn't it ? And it didn't bloody work . Apart from the tiny number of drivers in F3 who are going to get into F1 F3 has always provided fast single seaters for a variety of drivers-from the enthusiastic amateur(remember Ronnie Grant?) to the megastar- Piquet and Senna to the journeyman racers like Wallace and Weaver. The B class also offered a good stepping stone.
coppice said:
I think it is much more nuanced than a direct link with the economy although it is undoubtedly a factor. Fact is , most cash and most public interest goes to F1 and what's left is thinly spread. 30 years ago or so it may have been worthwhile getting your company's name on a F3 car as plenty were watching and magazines like Autosport covered the F3 series in detail as next season's F1 debutants would often come from British F3 . But now...nobody outside the real hardcore fan base has heard of F3, let alone bothers to watch it even if you were lucky enough to find a race to attend. Autosport is virtually an F1 fanzine apart from Marcus Pye's valiant efforts and , as said too many people in the sport think they have to own a humungous new transporter to impress the neighbours with...
Maybe this is something for a blog in future. Why F1 has outgrown all the other series and hovered up all the cash & media coverage.I think plenty of people have been saying this for years- Simon Taylor, Damien Smith , Marcus Pye et al. Trouble is that for many people sport equals what you watch on TV- F1 is given massive TV coverage ergo its popularity and its income. Because I am an old fart I actually preferred it when there was little or no TV coverage but I could watch at least one Grand Prix and a couple of non championship F1 races live and afford it easily too. Add in F5000, F2 and F3 and we were in a much better place for those of us who like our racing live . Apart from BTCC- TV again- the only part of British motor sport which is really healthy is historic racing which is why I will be at Silvertsone from Thursday to Sunday next week !
danfilm007 said:
Sorry to reopen thread!
I think it did just get to stupid, last year's 'British' F3 was only held half the time here!
I suppose all the budget problems will have assisted MSV's F3 Cup somewhat
Not really, they struggle to get into double figures themselves after a decent first year a couple of years ago. I think it did just get to stupid, last year's 'British' F3 was only held half the time here!
I suppose all the budget problems will have assisted MSV's F3 Cup somewhat
I know I am well after the curve and totally missed the apex on this chat but I own the Ginetta F3 and was really interested in this recollection from Dandarez. I was unaware of wheel colours. Don't suppose you have any photos or more info?
dandarez said:
Being an old fart too, your memory isn't bad.
It was Pike, Nunn ...and the late great Bev Bond (who drove for Ginetta before Chapman nicked him).
Talking of Ginetta and F3, here's a bit of useless info that even some F3 followers don't know. A Formula 3 race on the 30 Aug 1964 at Snetterton saw the debut of the monocoque chassis Ginetta G8.
It lined up on the front of the 16 car grid with Chris Meek at the wheel of Ginetta's new single seater (it even had its wheels painted yellow like the Lotis!), alongside a Brabham BT9, a couple of Lotus 31s, a Brabham BT9 (driven by someone who went on to become a F1 boss by the name of F. Williams).
Rodney Banting's Loti 31 won, another 31 came second, Frank's BT9 was third and the Ginetta came fourth.
It was Pike, Nunn ...and the late great Bev Bond (who drove for Ginetta before Chapman nicked him).
Talking of Ginetta and F3, here's a bit of useless info that even some F3 followers don't know. A Formula 3 race on the 30 Aug 1964 at Snetterton saw the debut of the monocoque chassis Ginetta G8.
It lined up on the front of the 16 car grid with Chris Meek at the wheel of Ginetta's new single seater (it even had its wheels painted yellow like the Lotis!), alongside a Brabham BT9, a couple of Lotus 31s, a Brabham BT9 (driven by someone who went on to become a F1 boss by the name of F. Williams).
Rodney Banting's Loti 31 won, another 31 came second, Frank's BT9 was third and the Ginetta came fourth.
Edited by ponters on Sunday 16th April 19:23
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