RE: Motorsport on Monday: 8/9/14

RE: Motorsport on Monday: 8/9/14

Monday 8th September 2014

Motorsport on Monday: 8/9/14

Hamilton proves experience is important, so how young is too young for Formula 1?



Experience came to the fore last weekend at Monza. After that Mercedes incident at Spa - with Toto Wolff delivering his Terminator-like ultimatum in the meantime about reviewing the driver line-up if his staff couldn't race cleanly - Lewis lashed his W05 on pole and, in a roundabout way, converted it to what could prove to be the most pivotal race win of the season.

There were veiled jibes between the two all weekend. When asked about his quali lap compared to Hamilton's, Nico described it as "an OK lap relative to my own lap," explicitly ignoring any reference to Lewis' pole time.

Championship is back on!
Championship is back on!
Moral victory
Hamilton had the last laugh though. Maturity from the cockpit after a launch map and clutch issue off the line saw him drop down the order to fourth proved Lewis has full control of his emotions, channelling any frustration into targeting the lead. A few cracking passes and putting pressure on his teammate, capitalising on his fresh rubber, was enough to force Rosberg into a mistake. Lewis took the lead and never looked back.

Hamilton most definitely now has the mental edge over Rosberg. No conversation in the room of awkwardness and a cleverly worded response to Jean Alesi's podium question if the two were still talking to each other. Answer: "of course, we're teammates." No mention of being friends.

Rosberg delivered his speech to the Italian fans in their tongue, received by boos. Hamilton says two words in Italian to raucous cheers. That's got to be hard to stomach, knowing legions of fans around the world aren't in your corner.

Still, it won't affect the pace of the two top men, with the margin between them still so narrow only a well-judged Rizla could be slipped into the gap. That means it'll be reliability and experience that decides this year's F1 title.

All the talk of F1 2015 is about Verstappen
All the talk of F1 2015 is about Verstappen
Formula Foetus
The latter is a valuable commodity and one that, up until recently, could only really be gained by seat time. Lots and lots of seat time. But the drivers graduating from junior formulae and passing through to F1 are getting younger and younger, and therefore have less and less of it.

Toro Rosso's Daniil Kvyat made his F1 debut this year at 19 and finished inside the top 10 in his first race, proving that age is just a number. Next year, however, as we know, Formula 1 will see its first 17-year-old competitor take to the track, prompting the question by many, how young is too young?

Potentially, while his road car might still have L plates on, Max Verstappen will be driving in the top echelon of tier one motorsport. He doesn't yet have a Super Licence - he's only in his first season of full-on car racing, and is currently lying second in the European F3 championship - but he will become the youngest driver ever to start a Formula 1 race.

Incredibly, that'll give him five years to beat Vettel's youngest ever world champion record.

Marquez has proved you can win with kids
Marquez has proved you can win with kids
Villeneuve on Verstappen
One former F1 world champ known for expressing his opinions, whether people want to hear them or not, is unconvinced it's a good thing for the sport. Jacques Villeneuve believes the Super Licence system is flawed and meaningless.

There's obviously a commercial aspect to the deal, which will gain Toro Rosso some airtime, but according to the people who know - the people who make decisions on drivers and have found and nurtured some of the best talent in the modern era - Verstappen has what it takes and can handle F1. He'll be there on merit.

A product of the Red Bull driver development programme, Helmut Marko has witnessed a few hopeful pedallers in his time. So has Trevor Carlin of F3 outfit Carlin Motorsport - which brands itself as the team of "Tomorrow's F1 stars today" and tried to sign Verstappen for this season.

Both believe he has the natural talent to succeed. There's already been plenty of debate on the Verstappen situation in the forums, but in general, how young is too young for F1? When a driver can't touch the pedals? Will we ever see a 'yoof' move straight from karting to top-level single-seaters?

Kart champ Ilott is 15; cars soon?
Kart champ Ilott is 15; cars soon?
The Marquez factor
Does it mean that at 15, recently crowned European CIK-FIA KF kart champion Callum Ilott is too old? Doubtful, in my opinion - this sort of thing has to be judged on a case-by-case basis.

Verstappen is not the norm, he's the exception to the rule. Although the average driver age of those moving into F1 has got younger, I think there's a critical threshold for the majority of F1 hopefuls below which a lack of experience and therefore the wrong mental attitude will be prohibitive to landing a seat.

Some are natural phenomena. Some just take a little more time. Senna for example - a driver that's almost impossible to pigeonhole into one of these categories - didn't win a world title until he was 28. Would you class him as anything other than genius?

In other areas of motorsport, it's been proved that youth isn't necessarily a precursor to inexperience. In MotoGP Marc Marquez showed last year he had the ambition, the maturity and the spuds of steel to win a world title at just 20 years old, even if Honda did change the rules to get him in.

Crashing on his first demo run in an F1 car wasn't the most auspicious of starts, but now he's broken his duck, I think F1's latest teenager might surprise a few armchair pundits next season. After all, age is only a number, right?

Author
Discussion

green-blood

Original Poster:

147 posts

238 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
Hamilton proves experience is important, so how young is too young for Formula 1?

You mean the Hamilton who was parachited into F1 by McLaren and took victories in his first season, before winning the title in his second and building that experience of the next 6 seasons of battle leading to him challanging again this season......

He didnt arrive in F1 a seasoned pro. What he did have was a top line car from the off (earned because the talent had been spotted and nutured), he didnt have to battle through from mid field in difficult motors - Riciardo/Verne/Kyvat/Bianci/Ericsson etc have and are.

I would have said talent is more important than age, and is certainly more important than being able to buy a seat.

storminnorman

2,357 posts

151 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
I know it's silly but I find Rosberg's incidents yesterday a much more believable conspiracy than, say, Monaco.
Anyway, I don't think experience is going to come into it, they are both well matched in that regard. It'll come down to consistency and reliability, the former of which Rosberg has controlled better, the latter of which neither driver can really control.
That and the double points deus ex machina at the end of the season. stoopad.

kaiowas

70 posts

275 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
[quote]A product of the Red Bull driver development programme
[/quote]

Let's knock that one on the head right from the start. Verstappen signed up to the RB development programme less than a week before being announced at Toro Rosso. I doubt they developed him very much in those few days.

thatguy11

640 posts

122 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
I'll admit I still wasn't completely sold on Kvyat....until I saw his save at the 1st chicane following his brake failure. WOW, now that's car control. There are very, very few drivers who could have made a save like that, not only avoiding smashing into the back of Raikkonen but also saving a huge oversteer moment on the grass and avoiding the barriers. Then finishing the last two laps with no brakes. He's an absolute star

Theallotmentman

140 posts

203 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
green-blood said:
Hamilton proves experience is important, so how young is too young for Formula 1?

You mean the Hamilton who was parachited into F1 by McLaren and took victories in his first season, before winning the title in his second and building that experience of the next 6 seasons of battle leading to him challanging again this season......

He didnt arrive in F1 a seasoned pro. What he did have was a top line car from the off (earned because the talent had been spotted and nutured), he didnt have to battle through from mid field in difficult motors - Riciardo/Verne/Kyvat/Bianci/Ericsson etc have and are.

I would have said talent is more important than age, and is certainly more important than being able to buy a seat.
Sorry but didn't Hamilton race from a very young age in Karts upwards and also race against a very good good mix of drivers. He also won his first. GP2 season on his first attempt. Oh and let's not forget that yes, he had a great car but was also up against Alonso, the best driver at the time......whom he beat.....in his first season in an F1 car.

Talent is everything. Working your way up in any driving form is always the best way to build character but not always skill as some just naturally have it.

M666 EVO

1,124 posts

161 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
I hope Rosberg does it. I have not really been a fan of Lewis, he is too much of a pre-madonna. GB wise, Button is a far more decent chap than Lewis and is so much more likeable. But overall I would love to see Nico win the Championship.

Kyvat is someone to look out for. Bottas is a fantastic driver and even Riciardo is a good replacement for Webber but I still favour Vettel over all of them.

VladD

7,853 posts

264 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
I wonder if the younger driver phenomenon comes from the professionalism of F1 racing filtering down into lower formulae. Younger drivers in lower formula now get the full PR and training treatment, whereas before they were the old style "turn up and race" oufits. As a result younger people already have the mind set of a professional and the experience of a professional team and thus leap from lower formula to F1 isn't as great.

DaveR

1,209 posts

283 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
article said:
"...proved Lewis has full control of his emotions...
Over a number of years now Hamilton has proven that he's fine when he's winning and absolutely not when he isn't.

Karma, I'm in a good place right now, there are far more important things in the world than Motorsport, think of all the starving children... Rapidly followed by weapons grade paranoia, boo hoo, it's not fair the next time it's not all going his way for whatever reason. Whereupon nothing in the world is more important than Lewis Hamilton's Motorsport.

The almost total focus on driver personalities and sycophancy to particular drivers in the media, dull sounding cars, fake DRS-assisted overtaking - what happened to Murray's "Catching is one thing; passing is another..." - and having to pay to watch every other race all combine to make F1 the biggest turn-off ever tight now.

And, no, I'm not on the wrong website. I was one of those who'd set the alarm for 04:00 to watch the title decided at Suzuka in the past. Not any more.




VladD

7,853 posts

264 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
M666 EVO said:
I hope Rosberg does it. I have not really been a fan of Lewis, he is too much of a pre-madonna. GB wise, Button is a far more decent chap than Lewis and is so much more likeable. But overall I would love to see Nico win the Championship.

Kyvat is someone to look out for. Bottas is a fantastic driver and even Riciardo is a good replacement for Webber but I still favour Vettel over all of them.
I know where you're coming from. JB is very laid back and seems like a lovely bloke, whereas Lewis seems pretty intense almost all of the time. Even when he's trying to look relaxed, you get the feeling that his mind is whirring away in the background. He seems obsessed by winning and doesn't appear to have the ability to hide disappointment.

As for Nico, I've always been a big fan of his, but Monaco soured that for me. I'd rather Lewis won it this year and then we can have a clean fight for it again next year.

RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
DaveR said:
Over a number of years now Hamilton has proven that he's fine when he's winning and absolutely not when he isn't.

Karma, I'm in a good place right now, there are far more important things in the world than Motorsport, think of all the starving children... Rapidly followed by weapons grade paranoia, boo hoo, it's not fair the next time it's not all going his way for whatever reason. Whereupon nothing in the world is more important than Lewis Hamilton's Motorsport.

The almost total focus on driver personalities and sycophancy to particular drivers in the media, dull sounding cars, fake DRS-assisted overtaking - what happened to Murray's "Catching is one thing; passing is another..." - and having to pay to watch every other race all combine to make F1 the biggest turn-off ever tight now.

And, no, I'm not on the wrong website. I was one of those who'd set the alarm for 04:00 to watch the title decided at Suzuka in the past. Not any more.
+1

MrGeoff

645 posts

171 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
thatguy11 said:
I'll admit I still wasn't completely sold on Kvyat....until I saw his save at the 1st chicane following his brake failure. WOW, now that's car control. There are very, very few drivers who could have made a save like that, not only avoiding smashing into the back of Raikkonen but also saving a huge oversteer moment on the grass and avoiding the barriers. Then finishing the last two laps with no brakes. He's an absolute star
That save was pretty special to be honest. Even though he is young he's showing some gret maturity in the car. I believe he's one to watch out for.

gentleman2012

24 posts

135 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
M666 EVO said:
I hope Rosberg does it. I have not really been a fan of Lewis, he is too much of a pre-madonna. GB wise, Button is a far more decent chap than Lewis and is so much more likeable. But overall I would love to see Nico win the Championship.

Kyvat is someone to look out for. Bottas is a fantastic driver and even Riciardo is a good replacement for Webber but I still favour Vettel over all of them.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion - apparently, the front of house staff at Brackley HQ see it the other way round. JB comes across as an extremely nice bloke, but nice guys rarely finish first (except the year that he had a truly awesome car for the first half of the season). Bottas seems to be a friendly Finn and it's impossible not to like Danny Ric.

Max Verstappen came across as an extremely sensible young man on his first TV interview after the announcement - and he has a fantastic tutor and manager in his Dad.

Wkotuning

44 posts

154 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
DaveR said:
article said:
"...proved Lewis has full control of his emotions...
Over a number of years now Hamilton has proven that he's fine when he's winning and absolutely not when he isn't.

Karma, I'm in a good place right now, there are far more important things in the world than Motorsport, think of all the starving children... Rapidly followed by weapons grade paranoia, boo hoo, it's not fair the next time it's not all going his way for whatever reason. Whereupon nothing in the world is more important than Lewis Hamilton's Motorsport.

The almost total focus on driver personalities and sycophancy to particular drivers in the media, dull sounding cars, fake DRS-assisted overtaking - what happened to Murray's "Catching is one thing; passing is another..." - and having to pay to watch every other race all combine to make F1 the biggest turn-off ever tight now.

And, no, I'm not on the wrong website. I was one of those who'd set the alarm for 04:00 to watch the title decided at Suzuka in the past. Not any more.
By the looks of this he's more in-control of his emotions than you are....wobble Oooo the Irony.

Bionic Billy Nav

138 posts

165 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
There is no way Rosberg missed his braking point twice on the same corner/chicane I agree with Jackie Stewart and Mansell that was deliberate to gift Hamilton as a leveller, and it was the English booing the young German not the Italians..

TVR Sagaris

833 posts

231 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
Bionic Billy Nav said:
There is no way Rosberg missed his braking point twice on the same corner/chicane I agree with Jackie Stewart and Mansell that was deliberate to gift Hamilton as a leveller, and it was the English booing the young German not the Italians..
This is simply nonsense. As has been pointed out in other threads, Rosberg was not the only driver who failed to make that turn and took the escape road - in fact, it happened several times over the whole weekend including in the support races. You will also remember that Hamilton very nearly took the escape road towards the end of the race having locked up.

Theallotmentman

140 posts

203 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
TVR Sagaris said:
Bionic Billy Nav said:
There is no way Rosberg missed his braking point twice on the same corner/chicane I agree with Jackie Stewart and Mansell that was deliberate to gift Hamilton as a leveller, and it was the English booing the young German not the Italians..
This is simply nonsense. As has been pointed out in other threads, Rosberg was not the only driver who failed to make that turn and took the escape road - in fact, it happened several times over the whole weekend including in the support races. You will also remember that Hamilton very nearly took the escape road towards the end of the race having locked up.
To be honest I was in agreement with you but then I watched it back again today several times and I have to now disagree. There was almost zero tyre smoke nor skidding and he didn't even try to make the turn. Not only that but to make it through that chicane safety network and avoid almost everything twice under such hard braking doesn't make sense. Why also did Toto Wolff smile at the exact moment it happened, it's caught on camera. I hate to believe it to be the case but it's not sitting right. Even over the last 15 laps when Hamilton was ahead, the gap between Hamilton and Rosberg stayed almost exactly the same, around 4.5 seconds. I really hope I'm wrong........

djroadboy

1,173 posts

235 months

Monday 8th September 2014
quotequote all
Isn't it about time this feature was renamed F1 on Monday. Its getting as blinkered as Autosport on here now. There is much better Motorsport outside of F1 that deserves far more column inches!

/2p

Dan

green-blood

Original Poster:

147 posts

238 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
Theallotmentman said:
Sorry but didn't Hamilton race from a very young age in Karts upwards and also race against a very good good mix of drivers. He also won his first. GP2 season on his first attempt. Oh and let's not forget that yes, he had a great car but was also up against Alonso, the best driver at the time......whom he beat.....in his first season in an F1 car.

Talent is everything. Working your way up in any driving form is always the best way to build character but not always skill as some just naturally have it.
Don't be sorry you are right. Verstapen has been in karts/juniors for 12 years!!!

I wouldn't put him in yet.

I just think Hamilton is a poor example. Even vettel/Schumacher/senna all had a go in cars at the back or middle grid to learn first off.

Alex Langheck

835 posts

128 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
djroadboy said:
Isn't it about time this feature was renamed F1 on Monday. Its getting as blinkered as Autosport on here now. There is much better Motorsport outside of F1 that deserves far more column inches!

/2p

Dan
Have to agree. No mention of FiA WorldRX - at Loheac, won by Petter Solberg; who can win his 2nd World Title, 11 years after winning the WRC.

Theallotmentman

140 posts

203 months

Tuesday 9th September 2014
quotequote all
22 cars x 57 laps =1254 times this corner was taken (not accounting for the DNFs) and only two mistakes there and those by the driver leading the WDC?

Seem strange?