Formula E Beijing
Discussion
MikeO996 said:
REALIST123 said:
MikeO996 said:
Godalmighty83 said:
the cars themselves were slow
Do we have any objective evidence of this? I.e did anything else run on the track over the weekend? Are they running any tracks that are regularly used so we could compare?
Are there any meaningful times for Donington practice?
Maybe better to compare with FF Duratec. Same power but the FE weighs well over twice as much, and again worse rubber.
IainT said:
Should be sitting a race out on the naughty step, utterly reprehensible driving. Had Heidfelts car not gone it to the barrier floor first then he'd be lucky to be alive.
Very disappointed in the race. As others have pointed out. Slow. Crap looking. Naff track. Awful noise - not just 'not great' but actually nasty.
Formula E might last two years but it's got fail written all over it.
I totally agree, that accident looked horribly close to killing Heidfeld. I don't think it was Prost's fault per se that the accident was so dangerous, that has to be down to that kerb, but his move that caused the accident was inexcusable. Neither of these are a fault of Formula E, but it has an awfully long way to go to succeed. Can call me a changeophobe if you like, but that just wasn't enjoyable to watch. Not for me anyway. And the one thing all the detractors on here seem to have in common is they all watched it. They all gave it a chance.Very disappointed in the race. As others have pointed out. Slow. Crap looking. Naff track. Awful noise - not just 'not great' but actually nasty.
Formula E might last two years but it's got fail written all over it.
Maybe it will get better. I hope it does, I have nothing against battery powered racing And if it starts getting more interesting I might watch another one.
REALIST123 said:
The very slow formation lap was to minimise the battery drain on that lap. I doubt it makes much difference not being able to warm up the tyres, so that will stay. The brakes would benefit from warming up, but that raises another question- why carbon brakes? With top speeds of 100mph or so, they're hardly needed are they? I know they weigh a lot, but even so?
I've only just seen what these things weigh. 888Kg with 200bhp? No wonder they're slow.
I'll watch any form of motor racing and I don't really care what the propulsion is, but a power to weight ratio of little over 200bhp per tonne isn't going to be interesting to many, is it?
The most enjoyable racing Ive seen lately was the St Mary's trophy at Goodwood. I don't suppose the Austin A40 are particularly powerful, but they were enjoyable to watch even in qualifying and what great racing even though the drivers were not taking chances, to protect the cars.. I've only just seen what these things weigh. 888Kg with 200bhp? No wonder they're slow.
I'll watch any form of motor racing and I don't really care what the propulsion is, but a power to weight ratio of little over 200bhp per tonne isn't going to be interesting to many, is it?
Single seaters do tend to look slow as you can't see them working, but through the chicanes they certainly looked rapid and whipped by the cameras in the fencing exiting the corners. The straights are the weak point, hence starting out on street circuits,
oilspill said:
REALIST123 said:
The very slow formation lap was to minimise the battery drain on that lap. I doubt it makes much difference not being able to warm up the tyres, so that will stay. The brakes would benefit from warming up, but that raises another question- why carbon brakes? With top speeds of 100mph or so, they're hardly needed are they? I know they weigh a lot, but even so?
I've only just seen what these things weigh. 888Kg with 200bhp? No wonder they're slow.
I'll watch any form of motor racing and I don't really care what the propulsion is, but a power to weight ratio of little over 200bhp per tonne isn't going to be interesting to many, is it?
The most enjoyable racing Ive seen lately was the St Mary's trophy at Goodwood. I don't suppose the Austin A40 are particularly powerful, but they were enjoyable to watch even in qualifying and what great racing even though the drivers were not taking chances, to protect the cars.. I've only just seen what these things weigh. 888Kg with 200bhp? No wonder they're slow.
I'll watch any form of motor racing and I don't really care what the propulsion is, but a power to weight ratio of little over 200bhp per tonne isn't going to be interesting to many, is it?
Single seaters do tend to look slow as you can't see them working, but through the chicanes they certainly looked rapid and whipped by the cameras in the fencing exiting the corners. The straights are the weak point, hence starting out on street circuits,
I think the FE only looked quick because the chicanes were artificially short and tight. The more I think about it the more it becomes clear why this programme is as it is. These cars would be an embarrassment on real circuits, where the batteries wouldn't last even half the same race distance, and the P/W would be a major shortcoming.
IMO, the only way this series could exist is in odd locations and with lots of gimmicks. The racing is a sideshow.
I wonder if any of the circuits will have hills?
REALIST123 said:
IMO, the only way this series could exist is in odd locations and with lots of gimmicks. The racing is a sideshow.
You could look at it that way. Or you could be more positive and look at it from the point of view of us seeing races on street circuits that simply would not happen for normal race cars. Cities mainly. I hear there is going to be on in London, round near Battersea. That sounds really exciting to me.
I think the actual racing looked fine, and as a start to a new series it's seeming pretty ok.
Once the teams can start to develop the technology I think we'll see some pretty serious performance from the cars.
If they can just get the cooling more optimised so they can run the boost power as standard for next year, we'll be seeing 120mph at the end of 100mph straights, so things will suddenly get more interesting.
By then they might dump boosting and just have higher power levels.
Loads of scope for things to get much more interesting.
There is loads of silliness though, like the hot-swaps in the pits, music, fan-boost etc. I hope these things disappear fast once the series matures.
I also hope that the FIA don't start hopping in and strangling innovation as soon as teams start to innovate and do things that will really improve EV racing and EV road vehicle tech.
I'm not sure what I think to the Beijing track all considered. It's quite long and doesn't seem to flow like a great track should.
Putrajaya seems much more promising with a main straight allowing ~ 120mph without boosts, and some decent undulating topography and curved sections that can't be taken flat out.
Cheers
Dave
Once the teams can start to develop the technology I think we'll see some pretty serious performance from the cars.
If they can just get the cooling more optimised so they can run the boost power as standard for next year, we'll be seeing 120mph at the end of 100mph straights, so things will suddenly get more interesting.
By then they might dump boosting and just have higher power levels.
Loads of scope for things to get much more interesting.
There is loads of silliness though, like the hot-swaps in the pits, music, fan-boost etc. I hope these things disappear fast once the series matures.
I also hope that the FIA don't start hopping in and strangling innovation as soon as teams start to innovate and do things that will really improve EV racing and EV road vehicle tech.
I'm not sure what I think to the Beijing track all considered. It's quite long and doesn't seem to flow like a great track should.
Putrajaya seems much more promising with a main straight allowing ~ 120mph without boosts, and some decent undulating topography and curved sections that can't be taken flat out.
Cheers
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Sunday 14th September 23:10
Amen, PW.
The main problem I see so far is with the circuit.
REALIST123 said:
Do you really need 'serious talent' in a low grip, underpowered car? I think the reason it looked so 'competitive' is because they are all able to run on the limit quite easily, taking care of the batteries being the main challenge.
What an ignorant comment. Of course you need 'seriously talented' drivers, you need to be 'seriously talented' to beat the merely 'very talented' drivers. It's a race, that's the idea. The skill required to drive a seriously fast lap is not diminished when the available power is low because in this case the available grip is also low.The main problem I see so far is with the circuit.
kiseca said:
And the one thing all the detractors on here seem to have in common is they all watched it. They all gave it a chance.
Maybe it will get better. I hope it does, I have nothing against battery powered racing And if it starts getting more interesting I might watch another one.
I'll set it up to record the series but I can't see me making it a priority to watch. Certainly not with the volume up high.Maybe it will get better. I hope it does, I have nothing against battery powered racing And if it starts getting more interesting I might watch another one.
Edited by IainT on Monday 15th September 11:45
I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding about electric cars. As they are they are not environmentally friendly... they just move the pollution from one place to another. This current technology with fixed batteries is a blind alley and has very little future relevance and thus Formula E is just a gimmick as it stands.
Great Dane said:
I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding about electric cars. As they are they are not environmentally friendly... they just move the pollution from one place to another. This current technology with fixed batteries is a blind alley and has very little future relevance and thus Formula E is just a gimmick as it stands.
A very clever man (Dr Baretsky) says it like it is - Check 16:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TAhWdVU3M4
BritishRacinGrin said:
The main problem I see so far is with the circuit.
It works better the faster you go.But I agree, too many medium length straights here kinda make it feel a bit bland. If you get one corner wrong the slate seems to be wiped clean by the next. Apart from the SW chicane/turn to the East there are no really 'joined' corner complexes at all on this course.
I think Putrajaya will be much more demanding on the drivers, there are immediately many more places where you can get caught out of the flow and lose time through the next few corners.
Dave
humph said:
I had to chuckle at the green environmental claims being bandied about.
Two cars managed 25 laps of a 3.44km circuit giving a total distance of 86km.
The cars use 28kwh batteries made by Williams and as the aim is to go as quick as possible without running out of charge, I guess they used all 56kwh. That's 1.5km/kwh. Pretty feeble.
If these cars were charged on the UK grid with a generous figure of 470gCO2/kwh (It's actually higher at the moment due to increased coal use) this would result in a total CO2 emission of 26.3kg... or 306gCO2/km. Even a range rover can beat that!
Yeah they were all driving a carfully design track to mimic the NEDC were they?Two cars managed 25 laps of a 3.44km circuit giving a total distance of 86km.
The cars use 28kwh batteries made by Williams and as the aim is to go as quick as possible without running out of charge, I guess they used all 56kwh. That's 1.5km/kwh. Pretty feeble.
If these cars were charged on the UK grid with a generous figure of 470gCO2/kwh (It's actually higher at the moment due to increased coal use) this would result in a total CO2 emission of 26.3kg... or 306gCO2/km. Even a range rover can beat that!
I watched it live and it was mixed bag for me.
Some of the racing was good but it all seemed so slow. Chandook making Sam Bird look like an amateur was a surprise given his poor form in F1.
I didn't like the circuit nor the noise which was a major turn off. Not because it was different but because it was such an awful, draining noise. That needs some urgent work.
The pit stop though and two cars. That's a terrible idea and how is having two cars eco-friendly? Me, my wife and son (aged 8) all went "What!??!" even my son said "If the cars can't last 25 laps then why are they doing 25 laps? Why don't they do a 10 lap race?"
But it's a start. Make them faster, last longer, change the noise, change the circuits, remove the pit stop and what's not to like? It's motorsport and any motorsport is good eg: lawn mower racing is still great to watch.
The last corner incident was a shame as a great move by Heidfeld and I thought the worst but for those damning Prost it's worth re-watching the video where he's looking right, right, right, right for Heidfeld but then turns left to take the corner and collect Nick. A mistake but not malicious.
Nico Prost (@nico_prost) tweeted at 2:16 pm on Sat, Sep 13, 2014:
I feel very bad about the incident and after looking at the videos I understand that I am responsible. I just did not see him, feel very bad
(https://twitter.com/nico_prost/status/510779085967351808)
Nick Heidfeld (@NickHeidfeld) tweeted at 3:56 pm on Sat, Sep 13, 2014:
@nico_prost Thx Nico.Know u and that u dont drive anybody of on purpose.s
t happens.Next week we fight together in Austin @RebellionRacing
(https://twitter.com/NickHeidfeld/status/510804184112046080)
Some of the racing was good but it all seemed so slow. Chandook making Sam Bird look like an amateur was a surprise given his poor form in F1.
I didn't like the circuit nor the noise which was a major turn off. Not because it was different but because it was such an awful, draining noise. That needs some urgent work.
The pit stop though and two cars. That's a terrible idea and how is having two cars eco-friendly? Me, my wife and son (aged 8) all went "What!??!" even my son said "If the cars can't last 25 laps then why are they doing 25 laps? Why don't they do a 10 lap race?"
But it's a start. Make them faster, last longer, change the noise, change the circuits, remove the pit stop and what's not to like? It's motorsport and any motorsport is good eg: lawn mower racing is still great to watch.
The last corner incident was a shame as a great move by Heidfeld and I thought the worst but for those damning Prost it's worth re-watching the video where he's looking right, right, right, right for Heidfeld but then turns left to take the corner and collect Nick. A mistake but not malicious.
Nico Prost (@nico_prost) tweeted at 2:16 pm on Sat, Sep 13, 2014:
I feel very bad about the incident and after looking at the videos I understand that I am responsible. I just did not see him, feel very bad
(https://twitter.com/nico_prost/status/510779085967351808)
Nick Heidfeld (@NickHeidfeld) tweeted at 3:56 pm on Sat, Sep 13, 2014:
@nico_prost Thx Nico.Know u and that u dont drive anybody of on purpose.s
t happens.Next week we fight together in Austin @RebellionRacing(https://twitter.com/NickHeidfeld/status/510804184112046080)
Agent Orange said:
The last corner incident was a shame as a great move by Heidfeld and I thought the worst but for those damning Prost it's worth re-watching the video where he's looking right, right, right, right for Heidfeld but then turns left to take the corner and collect Nick. A mistake but not malicious.
Nico Prost (@nico_prost) tweeted at 2:16 pm on Sat, Sep 13, 2014:
I feel very bad about the incident and after looking at the videos I understand that I am responsible. I just did not see him, feel very bad
(https://twitter.com/nico_prost/status/510779085967351808)
Nick Heidfeld (@NickHeidfeld) tweeted at 3:56 pm on Sat, Sep 13, 2014:
@nico_prost Thx Nico.Know u and that u dont drive anybody of on purpose.st happens.Next week we fight together in Austin @RebellionRacing
(https://twitter.com/NickHeidfeld/status/510804184112046080)
I don't think it was malicious but the junk to the left was really bad judgement and a reaction to being 'done up the inside' - just too late to make the move and defend his line.Nico Prost (@nico_prost) tweeted at 2:16 pm on Sat, Sep 13, 2014:
I feel very bad about the incident and after looking at the videos I understand that I am responsible. I just did not see him, feel very bad
(https://twitter.com/nico_prost/status/510779085967351808)
Nick Heidfeld (@NickHeidfeld) tweeted at 3:56 pm on Sat, Sep 13, 2014:
@nico_prost Thx Nico.Know u and that u dont drive anybody of on purpose.s
t happens.Next week we fight together in Austin @RebellionRacing(https://twitter.com/NickHeidfeld/status/510804184112046080)
Good to see hat they're both mature enough to get on and get over it.
green methinks not lugging all the kit around to the far corners of the world... plus two cars plus lithium batteries that need disposing of eventually.
When I see all the fuzz made about electric cars and the claims for green credentials - charging points etc.. I am just shaking my head
When I see all the fuzz made about electric cars and the claims for green credentials - charging points etc.. I am just shaking my head
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