Btcc 2015

[btcc123]

emicen said:

btcc123 said:

emicen said:

btcc123 said:

For race 3 Shedden had his engine turned up to qualifying mode where it gives black smoke out of the exhaust so it was a case of Champion or engine blow up.

Its not a diesel. Just cause Tim Harvey hits out with it on commentary doesn't mean it's actually happening.

During qualifying it was mentioned about the black smoke and the Honda engine in qualifying mode.In race 2 and 3 there was no black smoke as the engine was in race mode.In race 3 Shedden did a great job for several reasons,the engine was turned up into Qualifying mode,no ballast in the car and the help of other drivers as they saw their preferred title contender come through the field.

If you are interested there is a buy one get one free offer at Specsavers.

Petrol engines don't "smoke" under boost unless they have a problem.

The soot, not smoke, shows its running a slightly rich mix. If they "turned it up for qualifying mode" they would lean it out and it would put out less soot.

I'm sure Tim Harvey did spraff some bobbins during the qualifying coverage harking back to the days of the RS500s when they did have qualifying boost and race boost. The world has moved on, boost levels are set by TOCA for the season. Unless of course you're suggesting, in a magnanimous show of sportsmanship, Honda only run their maximum allowed boost in qualifying then hobble their car for the races just to make things interesting. Doubt it somehow.

I do not know what it is called but there was some black stuff coming out of the rear of the Honda during qualifying and race 3.Tim Harvey mentioned this in both qualifyimg and race 3 and would have thought he would know what he is talking about.

I know virtually nothing about the workings of an engine but would have thought that to get more power you would run the engine rich to get more petrol in the cylinders but dont know what effect that has on the boost.I would think that they would tweek the engine for qualifying but not do it in the race for reliability reasons and maybe they took a chance in race 3.

I will bow to you better knowledge of the workings of an engine but can only say what I saw and heard.

[l354uge]

btcc123 said:

I do not know what it is called but there was some black stuff coming out of the rear of the Honda during qualifying and race 3.Tim Harvey mentioned this in both qualifyimg and race 3 and would have thought he would know what he is talking about.

I know virtually nothing about the workings of an engine but would have thought that to get more power you would run the engine rich to get more petrol in the cylinders but dont know what effect that has on the boost.I would think that they would tweek the engine for qualifying but not do it in the race for reliability reasons and maybe they took a chance in race 3.

I will bow to you better knowledge of the workings of an engine but can only say what I saw and heard.

Leaner an engine runs the hotter it gets, more heat=more pressure=more torque.

The sweet spot is around lambda 0.67, leaner than this and you're in the dayynngerzooneeee...

Black soot maybe fuel being injected during exhaust to cool the turbo etc. But I work with production cars so don't really know about btcc engines etc so don't quote me here.

[acer12]

Tordoff and Plato exchanging a few words on Twitter. Tordoff gets my vote

@samtordoff: Obeying Team Orders: Massive difference if u are being paid by a team vs paying for a drive! For 99% of drivers on grid the latter applies!

[shake n bake]

Drivers arguing on Twitter, bad times.

[MG CHRIS]

acer12 said:

Tordoff and Plato exchanging a few words on Twitter. Tordoff gets my vote

@samtordoff: Obeying Team Orders: Massive difference if u are being paid by a team vs paying for a drive! For 99% of drivers on grid the latter applies!

But you still drive for the team and the boss has the final words doesn't matter if you pay for the ride or not.

[MG CHRIS]

btcc123 said:

emicen said:

btcc123 said:

emicen said:

btcc123 said:

For race 3 Shedden had his engine turned up to qualifying mode where it gives black smoke out of the exhaust so it was a case of Champion or engine blow up.

Its not a diesel. Just cause Tim Harvey hits out with it on commentary doesn't mean it's actually happening.

During qualifying it was mentioned about the black smoke and the Honda engine in qualifying mode.In race 2 and 3 there was no black smoke as the engine was in race mode.In race 3 Shedden did a great job for several reasons,the engine was turned up into Qualifying mode,no ballast in the car and the help of other drivers as they saw their preferred title contender come through the field.

If you are interested there is a buy one get one free offer at Specsavers.

Petrol engines don't "smoke" under boost unless they have a problem.

The soot, not smoke, shows its running a slightly rich mix. If they "turned it up for qualifying mode" they would lean it out and it would put out less soot.

I'm sure Tim Harvey did spraff some bobbins during the qualifying coverage harking back to the days of the RS500s when they did have qualifying boost and race boost. The world has moved on, boost levels are set by TOCA for the season. Unless of course you're suggesting, in a magnanimous show of sportsmanship, Honda only run their maximum allowed boost in qualifying then hobble their car for the races just to make things interesting. Doubt it somehow.

I do not know what it is called but there was some black stuff coming out of the rear of the Honda during qualifying and race 3.Tim Harvey mentioned this in both qualifyimg and race 3 and would have thought he would know what he is talking about.

I know virtually nothing about the workings of an engine but would have thought that to get more power you would run the engine rich to get more petrol in the cylinders but dont know what effect that has on the boost.I would think that they would tweek the engine for qualifying but not do it in the race for reliability reasons and maybe they took a chance in race 3.

I will bow to you better knowledge of the workings of an engine but can only say what I saw and heard.

Sheddens Honda did look a lot quicker in race 3 than what ive ever seen it before maybe that was down to others slowing up making it look a lot quicker I don't know but it looked so much quicker down the straights compared to the other cars. His brakes were glowing red hot which you don't see very often neither yes in race2 that was down to a brake problem on the rear but the 3rd race could see who hot they were getting.
Im not one for knowing or caring about the inner workings of the btcc and both drivers in the last race did everything they had to do to win. The title is full of iffs and buts what if Jason did have that puncture at the first rd which took a win and a good grid position away from the next race he would be well ahead, what if shedden didn't have that nightmare weekend at snetterton etc.

Its over Shedden won it with the best car on the grid cant do no more than that. As long as 2016 is the same as this year we be on for another great year specially with motorbase back from the beginning too.

[brian394]

In reply to someone about Flashs brakes. Race 2, his rear brakes were holding pressure. Due to the system, the only way this could happen would be if the master cylinder had/was in the process of failing. essentially, it would allow pressure to be applied, but not fully taken off when the pedal was released. his car wasn't the only one that had this problem (if that is what happened) over the weekend.

as for his brakes glowing, he was braking later/harder than pretty much everyone, into every corner, on every racing lap. It looked to me as if he was just getting to the point of overheating.


As for the qualifying mode on the engine for race 3, from what i heard from the gird when i was out, and from the pit lane when they came back round on the green flag lap, they defiantly were. the hondas are very distinguishable when they are downshifting in this mode. we first noticed it at knockhill as they slowed for duffus. They pop and bang a hell of alot more than anyone else. we even thought they were possibly running anti-lag it was that loud. and, why wouldn't they? last race after all. use everything the engine can give you, it's not illegal, just destroys the lifeline of the engine. but it only needed to last the race, and with the possibility of a champion at the end of it...


either way, gordon drove like a demon. his skill and race craft were second to none all through that race. he wanted it, and everyone knew it.


more to the point, does anyone know why Goff past parc-ferme and went straight to the MG garage?

[VX Foxy]

acer12 said:

Tordoff and Plato exchanging a few words on Twitter. Tordoff gets my vote

@samtordoff: Obeying Team Orders: Massive difference if u are being paid by a team vs paying for a drive! For 99% of drivers on grid the latter applies!

I have new found respect for Tordoff, he's right on.

[VX Foxy]

MG CHRIS said:

But you still drive for the team and the boss has the final words doesn't matter if you pay for the ride or not.

Bullst!

Finger in the air guesstimate- Smith paying the best part of £10k per race and you're suggesting he should throw a good podium just so someone (I'm guessing again- remember Knockhill?) he doesn't have particularly great respect for can have a marginally better opportunity of improving his championship chances? Behave.

Team game?! Haha! PMSL

I can hear Potato now..."multi 21 Aron!"

[Redlake27]

VX Foxy said:

MG CHRIS said:

But you still drive for the team and the boss has the final words doesn't matter if you pay for the ride or not.

Bullst!

Finger in the air guesstimate- Smith paying the best part of £10k per race and you're suggesting he should throw a good podium just so someone (I'm guessing again- remember Knockhill?) he doesn't have particularly great respect for can have a marginally better opportunity of improving his championship chances? Behave.

Team game?! Haha! PMSL

I can hear Potato now..."multi 21 Aron!"

Remember BMR are a young team, and they will learn. One tip would be to have a robust contract that covers such clauses. For example, even if a driver pays for the drive, there can be a 'refund/rebate' clause should the driver have to sacrifice a result.

[acer12]

VX Foxy said:

Bullst!

Finger in the air guesstimate- Smith paying the best part of £10k per race and you're suggesting he should throw a good podium just so someone (I'm guessing again- remember Knockhill?) he doesn't have particularly great respect for can have a marginally better opportunity of improving his championship chances? Behave.

Team game?! Haha! PMSL

I can hear Potato now..."multi 21 Aron!"

Exactly some members here seem to think that the BTCC is like F1 where its a big happy mega budget "team" where all drivers drive for the benefit of the "team", ignoring the fact that drivers put so much of their personal (or their personal sponsors) cash to sit in the car and try and get results. Each of these drivers have personal goals. Once they leave the BTCC while they look at an empty trophy spot in the cabinet they wont be remembered for the time they gave up 2nd place for a team mate who couldn't win the championship on his own.

One poster on here went as far as saying that turkington and smith should have both moved over. So by their reckoning Plato needs 3 team mates whose race plan is built around him with 2 in front to clear the way and then pull in and 1 in the midpack to block the competition. I'm sorry but thats worse than how Sheddan won.

Another misinformed poster even stated that BMR would get a cash prize for Plato winning the championship!

As the BTCC is so expensive most drivers can only realistically enter for a few years. Id make a guess (based on the fact that Aron Smiths brother raced in the BTCC for a few years(astra coupes)) that his personal sponsorship budget will fund a few years to see how good he is hoping that he can go beyond the BTCC, after this point he will go back to an ordinary life as a spectator of the sport. Add in the fact that driving home after a weekends racing with a deserved podium trophy is a lot more satisfying than empty handed I know what I would do.

Edited by acer12 on Friday 16th October 07:53

[The Wookie]

l354uge said:

btcc123 said:

I do not know what it is called but there was some black stuff coming out of the rear of the Honda during qualifying and race 3.Tim Harvey mentioned this in both qualifyimg and race 3 and would have thought he would know what he is talking about.

I know virtually nothing about the workings of an engine but would have thought that to get more power you would run the engine rich to get more petrol in the cylinders but dont know what effect that has on the boost.I would think that they would tweek the engine for qualifying but not do it in the race for reliability reasons and maybe they took a chance in race 3.

I will bow to you better knowledge of the workings of an engine but can only say what I saw and heard.

Leaner an engine runs the hotter it gets, more heat=more pressure=more torque.

The sweet spot is around lambda 0.67, leaner than this and you're in the dayynngerzooneeee...

Black soot maybe fuel being injected during exhaust to cool the turbo etc. But I work with production cars so don't really know about btcc engines etc so don't quote me here.

From my experience they respond well to having a stack of timing wound in but it shortens the engine life.

The cars do have a 4 way map switch on the steering wheel. Typically there will be a couple of 'regular' maps with different throttle profiles for wet and dry and another overtaking mode one that will result in an unhappy team boss or a bill for an engine refresh if used for an entire race

[Janesy B]

I was guessing they pushed the timing as much as they can, boost isn't the only thing available to change on the engine so it winds me up whenever someone says yeah they were allowed to stuff more boost on to win it. That's bks, imagine how many teams would throw a wobbly. I know Gow likes to put on a show, but he does respect the teams.

VX Foxy said:

Bullst!

Finger in the air guesstimate- Smith paying the best part of £10k per race and you're suggesting he should throw a good podium just so someone (I'm guessing again- remember Knockhill?) he doesn't have particularly great respect for can have a marginally better opportunity of improving his championship chances? Behave.

Team game?! Haha! PMSL

I can hear Potato now..."multi 21 Aron!"

Maybe if Plato wasn't such a tt to other drivers, Aron would have been a bit more inclined to let him past. Plato is reaping what he sows in that regard.

Edited by Janesy B on Friday 16th October 08:43

[VX Foxy]

The Wookie said:

The cars do have a 4 way map switch on the steering wheel. Typically there will be a couple of 'regular' maps with different throttle profiles for wet and dry and another overtaking mode one that will result in an unhappy team boss or a bill for an engine refresh if used for an entire race

Didnt know that. Thanks for sharing.

Are there any "discretionary" tweaks that may be handed down by the Chairman?

[Allyc85]

brian394 said:

In reply to someone about Flashs brakes. Race 2, his rear brakes were holding pressure. Due to the system, the only way this could happen would be if the master cylinder had/was in the process of failing. essentially, it would allow pressure to be applied, but not fully taken off when the pedal was released. his car wasn't the only one that had this problem (if that is what happened) over the weekend.

as for his brakes glowing, he was braking later/harder than pretty much everyone, into every corner, on every racing lap. It looked to me as if he was just getting to the point of overheating.


As for the qualifying mode on the engine for race 3, from what i heard from the gird when i was out, and from the pit lane when they came back round on the green flag lap, they defiantly were. the hondas are very distinguishable when they are downshifting in this mode. we first noticed it at knockhill as they slowed for duffus. They pop and bang a hell of alot more than anyone else. we even thought they were possibly running anti-lag it was that loud. and, why wouldn't they? last race after all. use everything the engine can give you, it's not illegal, just destroys the lifeline of the engine. but it only needed to last the race, and with the possibility of a champion at the end of it...


either way, gordon drove like a demon. his skill and race craft were second to none all through that race. he wanted it, and everyone knew it.

Agreed with that. While it was sad that so many made it obvious they were letting him pass (Jordan!) you could see by the attitude of the car that he was driving every lap like a qualy lap.

As for Smith, maybe he remembered the harsh words that JP had about him at Knockhill a few year ago...

[shalon]

Plato does say what he thinks to the media and has made a few comments about smith in the past he was nudged by smith at clarks at knock hill a few years ago

[shalon]

Plato does say what he thinks to the media and has made a few comments about smith in the past he was nudged by smith at clarks at knock hill a few years ago

[Adrian W]

Smith may have ended his career though, what perspective team boss will sign him after that,

[l354uge]

Adrian W said:

Smith may have ended his career though, what perspective team boss will sign him after that,

One who wants a pretty rapid driver with a big wallet!
Only BMR, TD-HYR and WSR would care...

[anonymous-user]

Adrian W said:

Smith may have ended his career though, what perspective team boss will sign him after that,

I guess just about any of them. If he's paying, they're running him.

And I guess you mean prospective, unless you're seeing things from a different angle?

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 17th October 21:55