Nissan LMP1 spotted testing.

Nissan LMP1 spotted testing.

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Discussion

ChemicalChaos

10,360 posts

159 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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Vocal Minority said:
All P1's have to be now
Why did they ever go to open topped cars? Surely the aerodynamic benefits far outweigh the slight weight penalty of a roof and doors?

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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Um...I am not totally sure to be honest.

I seem to remember that open top cars used to be allowed to have wider tyres and so on to balance out performance, which justified Audi keeping open top for so long.

With Group C all being closed, it was possibly a World Sportscars regulation to be open top in the immediate post group C period and the design language from then endured - but that's a guess.

I am sure someone on here will know.

moffspeed

2,664 posts

206 months

Saturday 4th April 2015
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moffspeed said:
2 months time ? - yes fair enough..
So - a no show at Ricard and we won't see the car at Silverstone, I'm genuinely sad at that.

If the car laps LM within 10 secs of the pace-setting Porsche I'd be amazed - but I'd love to be proved wrong...

IanUAE

2,927 posts

163 months

Sunday 5th April 2015
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Open topped cars made driver changes quicker which was important when refueling and tyre changing (all 4 wheels at 1 time) at the same time were permissible.

I think.

carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Sunday 5th April 2015
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ChemicalChaos said:
Why did they ever go to open topped cars? Surely the aerodynamic benefits far outweigh the slight weight penalty of a roof and doors?
I believe that at the time when both were allowed there was hardly any benefit either way. Closed top will also incur additional surface drag from the canopy as well as the weight penalty, plus maybe they have to install additional cockpit cooling?

AlexS

1,550 posts

231 months

Monday 6th April 2015
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Gaz. said:
carl_w said:
ChemicalChaos said:
Why did they ever go to open topped cars? Surely the aerodynamic benefits far outweigh the slight weight penalty of a roof and doors?
I believe that at the time when both were allowed there was hardly any benefit either way. Closed top will also incur additional surface drag from the canopy as well as the weight penalty, plus maybe they have to install additional cockpit cooling?
Closed cockpits had to have AC in the last few years. It's not the heaviest thing in the world but it's still something else that isn't well placed ballast.
Audi built both closed and open cockpit cars as they didn't know which would be the best and decided that the open version was the better.

Closed cars don't need aircon, the rules only stipulate that the temperature cannot exceed a certain level. If this can be achieved without using aircon then there is no need to use it.

RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
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Did the rule to force closed cockpits come before or after the McNish and Rockenfeller crashes?

Open cockpit cars were allowed to use wider tyres IIRC.

AMD87

2,004 posts

201 months

Wednesday 8th April 2015
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RobGT81 said:
Did the rule to force closed cockpits come before or after the McNish and Rockenfeller crashes?

Open cockpit cars were allowed to use wider tyres IIRC.
Before that was the first year of them.

moffspeed

2,664 posts

206 months

Wednesday 20th May 2015
quotequote all
moffspeed said:
So - a no show at Ricard and we won't see the car at Silverstone, I'm genuinely sad at that.

If the car laps LM within 10 secs of the pace-setting Porsche I'd be amazed - but I'd love to be proved wrong...
Just over 3 weeks to go and there seems to be a gathering feeling that the whole thing is ill-conceived and a bit of a publicity stunt. Once again, I'm all for diversity and love the thought that these devices could be competitive - but I think they'll run at LMP2 pace at best....

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
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ChemicalChaos said:
Why did they ever go to open topped cars? Surely the aerodynamic benefits far outweigh the slight weight penalty of a roof and doors?
Open topped cars meant that the c of g was lower and also meant that airflow to the rear wing was easier. Easier at Drivér changes and to work on too.

Truckosaurus

11,183 posts

283 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
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Open cars also didn't need wipers, demisters, aircon (max temperature rules) and other similar things to add weight and go wrong.

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
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moffspeed said:
Just over 3 weeks to go and there seems to be a gathering feeling that the whole thing is ill-conceived and a bit of a publicity stunt. Once again, I'm all for diversity and love the thought that these devices could be competitive - but I think they'll run at LMP2 pace at best....
fking expensive publicity stunt.

I am guessing that their intentions were good but they but off more than they could chew, and it worked in theory but not in practice.

350Matt

3,733 posts

278 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
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think they're in it for the long haul though

I'm sure I've heard mentioned that its a 3 year campaign

DiscoColin

3,328 posts

213 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
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350Matt said:
think they're in it for the long haul though

I'm sure I've heard mentioned that its a 3 year campaign
At Le Mans, a 3 year programme from a standing start doesn't even guarantee an expectation of getting all to your cars to the finish line. I suspect that the management has reserved the right to pull the plug at year 2 if it turns out to be embarrassing...?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 21st May 2015
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Didnt Darren Cox say they would be on pole this year or something crazy when it was first launched?

Anyway they are moved in to the Jordan Technology Park opposite to Silverstone now.

RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Friday 22nd May 2015
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350Matt said:
think they're in it for the long haul though

I'm sure I've heard mentioned that its a 3 year campaign
Cox said they would run for 2 full seasons, we're nearly a third of the way through the first of those.

N0ddie

380 posts

164 months

Sunday 31st May 2015
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So turns out the Nissan is slower than the LMP2s. Not good early figures.

DiscoColin

3,328 posts

213 months

Sunday 31st May 2015
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N0ddie said:
So turns out the Nissan is slower than the LMP2s. Not good early figures.
It appears that the best that they did all day was over 22 seconds behind the top Porsche, (that's over 24kph slower average). Currently they are closer to the lap times of the GTE cars than the top LMP1s. I wasn't expecting them to be overly competitive, but I didn't expect them to be that far behind the curve. They had better make it to the end of the race or even Darren Cox won't be able to spin anything positive out of the programme. They are so far back that even if they can go longer on fuel they still aren't going to be in sight.

They were however the fastest through the speed traps, so it appears that what they have built is very much the drag strip special that we expected. Extrapolating that out, it seems that at anywhere other than Le Mans we should expect them to be quite useless, perhaps explaining the no-shows at other WEC rounds even more vividly.

Edited by DiscoColin on Sunday 31st May 22:19

FourWheelDrift

88,375 posts

283 months

Sunday 31st May 2015
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Le Mans test times

http://www.crash.net/le-mans/results/219458/1/le-m...

1. Webber/Hartley/Bernhard GER Porsche 919 Hybrid m 21.061s LMP1
2. Hulkenberg/Tandy/Bamber GER Porsche 919 Hybrid 3m 22.322s LMP1
3. Lotterer/Fassler/Treluyer GER Audi Sport Team Joest R18 e-tron 3m 22.556s LMP1
4. Duval/di Grassi/Jarvis GER Audi Sport Team Joest R18 e-tron 3m 23.002s LMP1
5. Jani/Lieb/Dumas GER Porsche 919 Hybrid 3m 23.179s LMP1
6. Albuquerque/Bonanomi/Rast GER Audi Sport Team Joest R18 e-tron 3m 23.375s LMP1
7. Davidson/Buemi/Nakajima JPN Toyota Gazoo TS040 Hybrid 3m 25.321s LMP1
8. Wurz/Conway/Sarrazin JPN Toyota Gazoo TS040 Hybrid 3m 30.334s LMP1
9. Heidfeld/Prost/Beche SUI Rebellion R-ONE AER 3m 33.958s LMP1
10. Imperatori/Abt/Kraihamer SUI Rebellion R-ONE AER 3m 42.144s LMP1
11. Chandhok/Berthon/Patterson IRL Murphy Oreca 03R-Nissan 3m 42.405s LMP2
12. Thiriet/Badey/Gommendy FRA Thiriet by TDS Oreca 05-Nissan 3m 43.344s LMP2
13. Turvey/Evans/Dolan GBR Jota Gibson-Nissan 3m 43.359s LMP2
14. Rusinov/Canal/Bird RUS G-Drive Ligier-Nissan 3m 44.452s LMP2
15. Panciatici/Chatin/Cappillaire FRA Signatech Alpine Nissan 3m 44.567s LMP2
16. Watts/Kane/Leventis GBR Strakka DOME-Nissan 3m 45.536s LMP2
17. Tung/Cheng/Roussel GER Pegasus Morgan-Nissan 3m 46.384s LMP2
18. Howson/Lapierre/Bradley HKG KCMG Oreca 05-Nissan 3m 47.015s LMP2
19. Yacaman/Derani/Gonzalez RUS G-Drive Ligier-Nissan 3m 47.058s LMP2
20. Webb/Ragues/Amberg SUI SARD-Morand Morgan-SARD 3m 47.068s LMP2
21. Lancaster/Wirdheim/Hirsch GBR Greaves Gibson-Nissan 3m 47.130s LMP2
22. Ibanez/Perret/Bellarosa SMR Ibanez Oreca 03R-Nissan 3m 47.198s LMP2
23. Krohn/Jonsson/Barbosa USA Krohn Ligier-Judd 3m 47.251s LMP2
24. Mediani/Minassian/Markozov RUS SMP BR01-Nissan 3m 47.827s LMP2
25. Sharp/Dalziel/Heinemeier-Hansson USA ESM Ligier-Honda 3m 47.943s LMP2
26. Brown/van Overbeek/Fogarty USA ESM Ligier-Honda 3m 49.382s LMP2
27. Tincknell/Krumm/Buncombe JPN Nissan GT-R LM Nismo 3m 50.713s LMP1
28. Aleshin/Ladygin/Ladygin RUS SMP BR01-Nissan 3m 55.213s LMP2
29. Mardenborough/Chilton/Pla JPN Nissan GT-R LM Nismo 3m 55.695s LMP1
30. Ordonez/Matsuda/Shulzitskiy JPN Nissan GT-R LM Nismo 3m 57.567s LMP1

31. Turner/Mucke/Bell GBR Aston Martin Racing Vantage GTE 3m 58.069s GTE Pro
32. Gavin/Milner/Taylor USA Corvette Racing C7.R 3m 59.159s GTE Pro
33. Lamy/Lauda/Dalla Lana GBR Aston Martin Racing Vantage GTE 3m 59.338s GTE Am
34. Rigon/Calado/Beretta ITA AF Corse Ferrari 458 Italia 3m 59.420s GTE Pro
35. Bruni/Vilander/Fisichella ITA AF Corse Ferrari 458 Italia 3m 59.846s GTE Pro
36. Lietz/Christensen/Bergmeister GER Porsche Team Manthay 911 RSR 4m 00.272s GTE Pro
37. Sorensen/Thiim/Nygaard GBR Aston Martin Racing Vantage GTE 4m 00.316s GTE Pro
38. MacDowall/Stanaway/Rees GBR Aston Martin Racing Vantage GTE 4m 00.325s GTE Pro
39. Pilet/Makowiecki/Henzler GER Porsche Team Manthay 911 RSR 4m 01.066s GTE Pro
40. Wainwright/Carroll/Keen GER Gulf Racing Porsche 911 RSR 4m 01.208s GTE Am
41. Cameron/Griffin/Mortimer ITA AF Corse Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 01.221s GTE Am
42. al Faisal/Giermaziak/Avenatti GBR JMW Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 02.212s GTE Am
43. Shaitar/Bertolini/Basov RUS SMP Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 02.325s GTE Am
44. Bleekemolen/Keating/Miller USA Riley TI Auto Dodge Viper GTS-R 4m 02.499s GTE Am
45. Perazzini/Cioci ITA AF Corse Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 02.732s GTE Am
46. Roda/Ruberti/Poulsen FRA Larbre Chevrolet Corvette C7.R 4m 02.856s GTE Am
47. Aguas/Perrodo/Collard ITA AF Corse Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 02.994s GTE Am
48. Sweedler/Bell/Segal USA Scuderia Corsa Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 03.117s GTE Am
49. Magnussen/Garcia/Briscoe USA Corvette Racing C7.R 4m 03.775s GTE Pro
50. Hall/Goethe/Castellacci GBR Aston Martin Racing Vantage GTE 4m 04.354s GTE Am
51. Chen/Vannelet/Parisy TWN Team AAI Porsche 911 GT3 RSR 4m 04.491s GTE Am
52. Ried/Al Quabisi/Bachler GER Abu Dhabi-Proton Porsche 911 RSR 4m 04.756s GTE Am
53. Dempsey/Long/Seefried GER Dempsey-Proton Porsche 911 RSR 4m 05.813s GTE Am
54. Laursen/Rizzoli/Mac ITA Formula Racing Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 07.257s GTE Am
55. Maassen/Chen/Kapadia TWN Team AAI Porsche 911 GT3 RSR 4m 07.378s GTE Am
56. Yamagishi/Ibanez/Raffin ESP Ibanez Oreca-Nissan 4m 08.462s LMP2
57. Mann/Gianmaria/Cressoni ITA AF Corse Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 12.191s GTE Am
58. Fujii/Hoshino/Klien JPN KCMG Oreca-Judd 4m 14.160s LMP2
59. Mellegol/Bachelier/Blank ITA AF Corse Ferrari 458 Italia 4m 21.492s GTE Am
60. Nicolet/Merlin/Maris FRA OAK Ligier-Nissan 4m 21.842s LMP2
61. Cumming/Vanthoor/Estre FRA OAK Ligier-Honda 4m 26.356 LMP2
62. Liuzzi/Trummer/Kaffer AUT ByKolles CLM P1/01 AER No Time LMP1

moffspeed

2,664 posts

206 months

Sunday 31st May 2015
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[quote=moffspeed]offspeed]

No need to apologise - I would have preferred to have been proved totally wrong. I predicted that the Nissans would be 10 seconds off Porsche LMP1 pace and could fall back to nearer LMP2 times - but half a minute deficit and times that were more representative of GT-E cars - what an earth is this all about ???

Over the years companies like Jaguar (over heating streamlined C types 1953) and Maserati (under developed Tipo 151s in 1962)have dropped the ball albeit with cars that had the pace but not the reliability. But this is in any different league - even when compared to Aston Martin/Prodrive's AMR-One effort from 2011 (qualified 20 secs off LMP 1 Pole)...