Nissan LMP1 spotted testing.

Nissan LMP1 spotted testing.

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Discussion

confucuis

1,303 posts

123 months

Sunday 31st May 2015
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Have the Toyota's fallen back? They were the quickest by a bit last year weren't they?

b0rk

2,289 posts

145 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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Tactically they are going to pose a problem to the P1 and P2 field due to high top speed requiring do or die overtakes into corners and under braking to get past them. I thought the concept was designed to show another way of doing it...

RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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Amazing that they can be fastest through the speed trap and then lose so much time through the twisty bits. It will be even further off the pace at somewhere like COTA. No wonder they didn't fancy Spa!

Ben Bowlby told Sam Collins that if it rains, they will win at Le Mans. :-/

DiscoColin

3,328 posts

213 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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b0rk said:
Tactically they are going to pose a problem to the P1 and P2 field due to high top speed requiring do or die overtakes into corners and under braking to get past them. I thought the concept was designed to show another way of doing it...
Erm - they are probably going to be a problem for even the GTEs too as it looks like they will be slow around all of the bendy bits of the circuit holding people up then boost monkey down the straights... Kind of like a pronounced proportion of drivers of Japanese turbo cars on track days... Seriously - for a car at Le Mans to be 10kph quicker down the straights yet still a full 22s per lap slower than the fastest cars out there surely means that when they aren't on the straights they may well be obstacles for the GT classes.

Jimmm

2,500 posts

182 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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Well I was hoping that Nissan would mix it up a bit with the other LMP1 runners. Usually I would be thinking single lap pace doesn't mean too much at Le Mans but I doubt they can recoup that even if it pisses it down the entire 24 hours.

DiscoColin

3,328 posts

213 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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PW said:
DiscoColin said:
Seriously - for a car at Le Mans to be 10kph quicker down the straights
1.1kph quicker down the straights...

Nissan's fastest was 336.0, Toyota 334.9
To not truncate my post...
DiscoColin said:
yet still a full 22s per lap slower than the fastest cars out there
Which were the Porsches, which were 10kph slower down the straights.

It appears (from here and Spa) that the 919s are set up to use their electric power for straight line acceleration to essentially boost to terminal velocity as quickly as possible, but due to the lower power of the internal combustion part of the power train are simply not capable of the same peak speeds at the end of the straights.

Regardless, it doesn't change the simple fact that the GT-R LM - even in the hands of the very capable Mr Pla - was not capable of even beating the qualifying time of the 2012 Delta Wing.


Megaflow

9,347 posts

224 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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I can't seem them finishing the race. Most cars seem to require a new nose at some point during the 24 hours, on all the other LMP1's it takes seconds. On the Nissan, with it's front radiators, I can't see it even making it back to the pits for the new nose.

RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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Megaflow said:
I can't seem them finishing the race. Most cars seem to require a new nose at some point during the 24 hours, on all the other LMP1's it takes seconds. On the Nissan, with it's front radiators, I can't see it even making it back to the pits for the new nose.
Yup, agreed. Last year was a race of attrition and serviceability. The winning car spent 20 minutes in the garage having a turbo changed!

It's a long old pit lane to trundle down while your coolant is emptying itself.

Nissan seem to be implying the hybrid system wasn't working at full power and/or they have another trick up their sleeve. Not long till we find out if they can back up the fighting talk!

DiscoColin

3,328 posts

213 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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Footnote to all of this though - was anyone doing enough time screen analysis to determine the maximum number of laps that each car was able to do on a tank of fuel (and if they were able to go long, did they have to compromise performance)? That is a crucial piece of information to determining how well optimised each package is to the race (especially with regard to Audi/Toyota/Porsche - less so Nissan unless they can also find a massive amount of speed over the next week to go with it).

RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Monday 1st June 2015
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It looks like Porsche #19 did 14 laps in the second session. Hard to read much into it with the safety car period and wet track.

b0rk

2,289 posts

145 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2015
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Considering how bullish Nissan remain regarding performance I can only assume something wasn't working that is a simple fix, either that or they genuinely do not expect the other P1's to able to maintain test day pace over 24 hrs. The lack of laps run must surely be a concern in terms of readiness the package.

The best sector times are somewhat behind the others so it is not as if the car is able censored down the straights at S1 37.391 (car 22), S2 1:23.713 (car 23), S3 1:43.389 (car 23), (3:44.493 composite). vs
Audi 31.641, 1:17.59, 1:32.019 (3:21.25 composite),
Porsche 32.108, 1:16.38, 1:31.85 (3:20.338 composite),
Toyota 32.457, 1:18.721, 1:33.735 (3:24.913 composite).

I mean seriously they're 7 seconds off the pace in sector 2 Mulsanne which is where the concept should show it's pace.

Personally I suspect that Audi and Porsche are still sandbagging the ultimate pace, 3:19's in full qualy looks a very tasty prospect.

DiscoColin said:
Erm - they are probably going to be a problem for even the GTEs too as it looks like they will be slow around all of the bendy bits of the circuit holding people up then boost monkey down the straights...
If they can't cleanly pass and stay in front of GT classes I do not see the cars running for very long before a GT class driver knocks the nose off accidentally.

Megaflow

9,347 posts

224 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2015
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I think Nissan would have been very unwise to assume they can't maintain test pace for 24 hours after what we saw at Silverstone and Spa.

Matt_N

8,900 posts

201 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
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Some cross posting from the Youtube thread in the lounge regarding the Nissan:

Matt Harper said:
No - they are unable to utilize the electrical energy recovery system. That means that their horsepower advantage is nullified. It's still way more aerodynamic than P1 competition because so much more of the air in front of the car passes through it, rather than being diverted around it. So it's light and slippery, but missing around 400hp just when/where they need it.
Even if it had arrived at La Sarthe in full working order, they wouldn't have made it beyond dusk - This is going to be a learning experience for next season, I assume.
I love the innovation - but lament the lack of development, due to the PR pressure they were under.

olliethehut

135 posts

172 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
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Anyone who expected them to come in and be at the pointy end of the field wasn't looking at the competition, or indeed quite how hard it is to produce a car that 1) Meets the needs of Le Mans 2) Meets the needs of the board and 3) Meets the expectations of the fans
They are in the 1st of a 3 year programme, they have decent ideas that with work "should" be competitive. What they don't have is any instant fixes to their problems, or enough time on track to work through what would be a massive checklist of systems and processes, even before they start to look at development time.
This LM will be an extended test with 3 cars, I'll expect them to be waaay of the back of the LMP1, probably mid pack LMP2 times by the time the track rubbers in and they have decent data.
What they lacked at the test day was dry running, even with 3 cars I'd imagine they are massively behind where they expected to be. However, I'm glad they are there. They have brought a breath of fresh air to the race, and the retro blue livery is outstanding.
That being said, they wont make it to dawn.
And the red Porsche will win... :-)

Top Banana

435 posts

211 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
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RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Thursday 4th June 2015
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Aston Martin tried the "developing the car in public" trick and that didn't go so well. Amazed that Nissan haven't learned from AMR mistakes.

Full manufacturer entries should be turning up at Le Mans ready to race, not using it as an extended test. They are taking up garages that the reserve entries could be using and are more likely to race to the flag.

But it's ok, they have a slide :-/

Dan Friel

3,615 posts

277 months

Thursday 4th June 2015
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There must be a fair chance that Nissan won't let the car race...

moffspeed

2,664 posts

206 months

Sunday 7th June 2015
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Dan Friel said:
There must be a fair chance that Nissan won't let the car race...
Not sure that would wash with the ACO unless a safety issue was identified..

olliethehut

135 posts

172 months

Monday 8th June 2015
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They'll all start, and as the week progresses I'd expect them to speed up a fair bit.
The aero is a massive advantage, and they were fastest through the speed trap on test day (with a massive HP deficit), they've just got to make it go round corners now...
There will be plenty of bolts coming loose / unknown gremlins to iron out, but they'll make it to the evening of race day at the earliest.
I'm all for more variety in sportscar racing, these are just that - A different solution to the question of how far can you go in 24 hrs.