VLN crash at Nurburgring, at least one spectator killed :(
Discussion
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/03/29/suspensio...
I suppose they had no option. Motorsport bodies have to be seen to be taking action.
I suppose they had no option. Motorsport bodies have to be seen to be taking action.
DanielSan said:
Seems an over reaction to be honest. How many times do GT cars race there and nothing happens? Banning them for once freak incident is ridiculous.
Agreed. This is a horrible accident, but surely an examination of the circuit should happen before types of cars are banned. Surely they should look at increasing run/off or enforcing no spectating zones in dangerous areas, or even reprofiling bumps/corners if required, rather than leaving everything as is and banning the running of certain cars.DanielSan said:
Redbaron1973 said:
So where does this leave the flagship N24 event? running without GT cars? or will they complete whatever work is deemed needed by mid May?
As it stands the N24 will be a field of lightly tuned, stripped and caged road cars. If it runs at all.That being said, I don't agree with their kneejerk reaction.
Getting spectators in safer spots and offering more protection to them is what they should be looking at. Difficult task with the size and surroundings, but IMO the faster cars are safe for the drivers, so they should be allowed to run. Focus should be on making it a safe place to watch.
Firstly, sincere condolences to the family, absolutely tragic.
However,
Didn't someone mention that people were inside the outer fence? Then surely it's up to the organisers to enforce this cordon and if they don't then they are liable?
'Motorsport is dangerous, you enter at your own risk etc, except if you penetrate the safety barrier...
Insurance would insist on it I would assume?
Just me jumping to conclusions, ignore if rubbish...
However,
Didn't someone mention that people were inside the outer fence? Then surely it's up to the organisers to enforce this cordon and if they don't then they are liable?
'Motorsport is dangerous, you enter at your own risk etc, except if you penetrate the safety barrier...
Insurance would insist on it I would assume?
Just me jumping to conclusions, ignore if rubbish...
Chris944_S2 said:
DanielSan said:
Redbaron1973 said:
So where does this leave the flagship N24 event? running without GT cars? or will they complete whatever work is deemed needed by mid May?
As it stands the N24 will be a field of lightly tuned, stripped and caged road cars. If it runs at all.That being said, I don't agree with their kneejerk reaction.
Getting spectators in safer spots and offering more protection to them is what they should be looking at. Difficult task with the size and surroundings, but IMO the faster cars are safe for the drivers, so they should be allowed to run. Focus should be on making it a safe place to watch.
Oilchange said:
Firstly, sincere condolences to the family, absolutely tragic.
However,
Didn't someone mention that people were inside the outer fence? Then surely it's up to the organisers to enforce this cordon and if they don't then they are liable?
'Motorsport is dangerous, you enter at your own risk etc, except if you penetrate the safety barrier...
Insurance would insist on it I would assume?
Just me jumping to conclusions, ignore if rubbish...
Jalopnik had a picture showing the car resting on seats that where between the catch fence and spectator fence. But someone else on this thread also thought that they had been given permission to be there. Either way it was a stupid thing to do or allow to happen and the ultimate price was paid, very unfortunate. However,
Didn't someone mention that people were inside the outer fence? Then surely it's up to the organisers to enforce this cordon and if they don't then they are liable?
'Motorsport is dangerous, you enter at your own risk etc, except if you penetrate the safety barrier...
Insurance would insist on it I would assume?
Just me jumping to conclusions, ignore if rubbish...
davepoth said:
That particular corner is pretty quick - it'll be over 100mph in a GT3 car I'd guess. Added to that is the near-jump just before it. To my mind the spectators should have more of a rally mentality when choosing spectating positions - and the outside of a 100mph bend is more or less the most stupid place to stand in a rally.
Open letter from MSA Chief saying just how 'stupid' rally spectators are. https://www.msauk.org/assets/stagerallysafetylette...
Chris944_S2 said:
DanielSan said:
Redbaron1973 said:
So where does this leave the flagship N24 event? running without GT cars? or will they complete whatever work is deemed needed by mid May?
As it stands the N24 will be a field of lightly tuned, stripped and caged road cars. If it runs at all.That being said, I don't agree with their kneejerk reaction.
Getting spectators in safer spots and offering more protection to them is what they should be looking at. Difficult task with the size and surroundings, but IMO the faster cars are safe for the drivers, so they should be allowed to run. Focus should be on making it a safe place to watch.
The catch fencing you see at the track now has only been in place for the last 5 years or so. Before then it was only the forlorn looking scaffold bar and mesh you can still see in the video. I remember turning up for that year's N24 and being aghast at this new monstrosity that all but blocked the cars from view. Obviously the impact wasn't that dramatic, but it sure felt like it having spent the few years previously being separated from the cars by only a few tyres, the Armco, and the aforementioned scaffold pole.
However, events like yesterday's serve to remind us of the dangers inherent in motorsport, and that perhaps the fencing isn't such a bad thing. There a few key points around the track where spectator safety DOES need to be improved, and the Flugplatz is clearly one of them. There is previous history of a very similar incident where Marcus Wincklehock's F2 car lifted and flew off in exactly the same spot back in 1980, and of course the Schulze GTR lifted it's front wheels there only last year.
The N24 is my favourite race of the calendar, and I truly hope that these problem areas can be improved in time to lift the ban before the race. However, given that this is only 6 weeks away, it doesn't seen likely.
My sincere condolences to those affected by yesterday's terrible incident.
civicduty said:
Jalopnik had a picture showing the car resting on seats that where between the catch fence and spectator fence. But someone else on this thread also thought that they had been given permission to be there. Either way it was a stupid thing to do or allow to happen and the ultimate price was paid, very unfortunate.
An absolute tragedy and I agree about the catch fence.It was stupid, indeed. I think the Ring has an absolutely unique problem:
Length.
At 21km, ( or 24 or so for combined), it is the Holy Grail of circuits for me.
Yet, you can't really police anything that long ( Indeed F1 realized that it took too long to get medical help in a crash). It reminds me of my youth watching rallies perched on a tree branch OVER a special section...exhilirating but utterly stupid. The Ring is magnificent but I fear each year that the increasing speeds and power will make it too dangerous....and some of the greatest satisfaction known to a driver will disappear. Yet, unless we can manage spectator safety, there are some orange lights here.
You can be travelling at well over 100mph in a decent road car at the crest of flugplatz. Well over 140mph in a modern race car.
The 24hr has always had quick racecars, it used to be a round of the DTM With the works teams entering.
You can get a quick road car airborne at flugplatz quite easily, the issue is the aero design causing the car to flip, something that has often been an issue with flat bottom sports cars.
The crest was re profiled a few years ago, it used to be a bigger jump with the crest earlier.
its a very sad event for all those involved.
The 24hr has always had quick racecars, it used to be a round of the DTM With the works teams entering.
You can get a quick road car airborne at flugplatz quite easily, the issue is the aero design causing the car to flip, something that has often been an issue with flat bottom sports cars.
The crest was re profiled a few years ago, it used to be a bigger jump with the crest earlier.
its a very sad event for all those involved.
Leaving aside the obvious problem with spectator positioning (impossible to police 100% anyway as others have said), surely the key to this accident was simply the crest of the hill? After all, the name kind of gives the game away; cars are almost expected to take off here.
With cars getting ever faster, legislating speeds/downforce or restricting entry for the sake of one or two sections of what is a very exceptional circuit would seem a bit daft.
While the loss of an iconic section would be regrettable, no bit of track should be sacred when the risk to drivers and spectators is so high.
Another crack at re-profiling Flugplatz is surely in order.
With cars getting ever faster, legislating speeds/downforce or restricting entry for the sake of one or two sections of what is a very exceptional circuit would seem a bit daft.
While the loss of an iconic section would be regrettable, no bit of track should be sacred when the risk to drivers and spectators is so high.
Another crack at re-profiling Flugplatz is surely in order.
Makes me wonder if we should allow movable aero. Where if the front wheels become unloaded, a wing pops up/something else and forces them down again.
It can't be quite as simple as the nascar "roof flaps" for when they end up going backwards.
Also has anybody seen safety fencing do it's job. I only ask because the 2 times I remember it featuring was Thruxton where a 911 just about vaulted it on a BTCC weekend (Kelvin Birt?), and now this. It's already in the way visually for the spectator, so could it be twice the height?
It can't be quite as simple as the nascar "roof flaps" for when they end up going backwards.
Also has anybody seen safety fencing do it's job. I only ask because the 2 times I remember it featuring was Thruxton where a 911 just about vaulted it on a BTCC weekend (Kelvin Birt?), and now this. It's already in the way visually for the spectator, so could it be twice the height?
jsf said:
You can be travelling at well over 100mph in a decent road car at the crest of flugplatz. Well over 140mph in a modern race car.
The 24hr has always had quick racecars, it used to be a round of the DTM With the works teams entering.
You can get a quick road car airborne at flugplatz quite easily, the issue is the aero design causing the car to flip, something that has often been an issue with flat bottom sports cars.
The crest was re profiled a few years ago, it used to be a bigger jump with the crest earlier.
its a very sad event for all those involved.
Sad it is, but so easy to overreact to an accident. So many 100's of thousands of cars have gone past that point safely.The 24hr has always had quick racecars, it used to be a round of the DTM With the works teams entering.
You can get a quick road car airborne at flugplatz quite easily, the issue is the aero design causing the car to flip, something that has often been an issue with flat bottom sports cars.
The crest was re profiled a few years ago, it used to be a bigger jump with the crest earlier.
its a very sad event for all those involved.
Cars will be cars, and will get faster. The environment (re-profiling the crest) has to adapt & safety improved within reason.
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