NISSAN LMP1...were they right?
Discussion
MissChief said:
groomi said:
Has anybody attempted to quantify the compounded effect of not being able to run the hybrid system? To my knowledge, the associated issues added up to:
Lack of hybrid power for acceleration.
Lack of braking (noticeably worse than GTs) despite next line.
Bigger mechanical brakes, so more unsprung weight.
Larger wheels to accommodate bigger brakes.
Off the shelf tyres because of bigger wheels instead of specifically designed tyres.
Possibly reduced downforce in order to reduce drag to at least give a competitive top speed while lacking power.
That's quite a significant list...
True, but if they can fix the hybrid power then one, two, three, four, five and six of your list will fix themselves almost. They were hugely disadvantaged by not running the Hybrid at LM but if they can get it working then they should at least be competitive.Lack of hybrid power for acceleration.
Lack of braking (noticeably worse than GTs) despite next line.
Bigger mechanical brakes, so more unsprung weight.
Larger wheels to accommodate bigger brakes.
Off the shelf tyres because of bigger wheels instead of specifically designed tyres.
Possibly reduced downforce in order to reduce drag to at least give a competitive top speed while lacking power.
That's quite a significant list...
chevronb37 said:
It’s all very well being able to run at a reasonable speed at the end of the Mulsanne or the run into Arnage; and Nissan wouldn’t be the first to manage that – remember WR’s straight line specials? The car has been described as a ‘Le Mans special’ by the team and wasn’t able to qualify legitimately for its intended race. Heaven knows where it will be come Bahrain and COTA where downforce is at a premium. Having studied the R18’s behaviour at close quarters, I don’t see how on earth Nissan can get close to its apex speeds – high downforce package or not. In my years of studying cars at close quarters I’ve never seen anything that corners with the severity and conviction of the current R18. It’s just unbelievable. That means the balance of the WEC season will probably be a write-off.
The whole concept is utterly fascinating and should have potential but the car should never have raced this year. All the back-patting PR just makes it look even worse. If the team had come quietly and humbly then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I cheered David Brabham hounding the Audis during the opening at Le Mans in 2000 aboard the Panoz. I like different but I’m afraid the self-aggrandisement of Nissan’s programme has left me with zero sympathy to its current plight.
I guess we'll find out at the Nurburgring, but despite the Audi's cornering I think the 919 Hybrid is going to have a huge advantage since it's running at 8MJ and not 4.The whole concept is utterly fascinating and should have potential but the car should never have raced this year. All the back-patting PR just makes it look even worse. If the team had come quietly and humbly then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I cheered David Brabham hounding the Audis during the opening at Le Mans in 2000 aboard the Panoz. I like different but I’m afraid the self-aggrandisement of Nissan’s programme has left me with zero sympathy to its current plight.
Dr JonboyG said:
I guess we'll find out at the Nurburgring, but despite the Audi's cornering I think the 919 Hybrid is going to have a huge advantage since it's running at 8MJ and not 4.
Will we? The last I heard they were not confirmed to show up pending a private test (separate from everyone else while the rest are all testing in Germany). I responded to something that Darren Cox posted on Facebook asking whether they were confirmed for the rest of the season (and whether there were any targets from the board for continued participation) but there was no response to that line of questioning. I wonder if Carlos Ghosen is considering pulling the plug actually..... ?DiscoColin said:
Will we? The last I heard they were not confirmed to show up pending a private test (separate from everyone else while the rest are all testing in Germany). I responded to something that Darren Cox posted on Facebook asking whether they were confirmed for the rest of the season (and whether there were any targets from the board for continued participation) but there was no response to that line of questioning. I wonder if Carlos Ghosen is considering pulling the plug actually..... ?
I had read that they were going to contest the rest of the season at DSC and also Racer iirc. I'm going to be pissed off if they're not at COTA as I was planning on writing a feature about the car for Ars Technica!After seeing the rumours that the Nissan board are talking about the future of the programme, I really hope they don't cancel it at this early stage. As someone else said, they ran at Le Mans because they said they would. It wasn't ready, and it was a public shakedown. The programme timing was incredibly aggressive (wasn't it 15 months?), so really they have done pretty well. Maybe they shouldn't have run it at Le Mans after all, as it seems to have shaken the board members.
It definitely should be given the chance to complete this season before any more discussions. Really it should be given another crack at Le Mans with the hybrid system before making any decisions on the future.
It definitely should be given the chance to complete this season before any more discussions. Really it should be given another crack at Le Mans with the hybrid system before making any decisions on the future.
I just get the impression that Nissan and Nismo have very little interest in the project. I also fail to see how it has anything to do with the "GTR".
I think Nissan are just trying to save face, when the truth is, without several truck loads of cash slung at it, the project will go nowhere. I don't even think it has made this weeks test...could you imagine McLaren Honda not turning up to a test day to try and rectify some gremlins and/or improve?
I think Nissan are just trying to save face, when the truth is, without several truck loads of cash slung at it, the project will go nowhere. I don't even think it has made this weeks test...could you imagine McLaren Honda not turning up to a test day to try and rectify some gremlins and/or improve?
SpeedMattersNot said:
I just get the impression that Nissan and Nismo have very little interest in the project. I also fail to see how it has anything to do with the "GTR".
I think Nissan are just trying to save face, when the truth is, without several truck loads of cash slung at it, the project will go nowhere. I don't even think it has made this weeks test...could you imagine McLaren Honda not turning up to a test day to try and rectify some gremlins and/or improve?
They said a couple of weeks ago they wouldn't be at the Nurburgring test and were going to do their own testing at COTA?I think Nissan are just trying to save face, when the truth is, without several truck loads of cash slung at it, the project will go nowhere. I don't even think it has made this weeks test...could you imagine McLaren Honda not turning up to a test day to try and rectify some gremlins and/or improve?
Well from a marketing perspective the programme looks like a clusterf
k, big publicity launch as part of a 90 second superbowl half time advert. Seriously guys at $4m per 30 seconds that's $12m US alone, this is not a low budget programme. Eurosport LM24 coverage sponsor, big hospitality setup etc this all costs lots of ££££.
Then miss the first two events and turn up completely unready for the big one LM winning negative mainstream media coverage in the US where the car had been marketed heavily...
Was 15 months development too for the concept aggressive? certainly looks that way but why did Nissan go public back in January when the programme was known internally at that point to be well behind the planned development curve and why continue to spend big on PR around the car. They could of and should of gone low key this year and spent the time (and PR money) sorting out the issues then marketed heavily once it worked properly next year.
If Nissan can not make the hybrid system work in the current concept as planned there is no point in the car running at any of the remaining WEC events this year, without the hybrid system the car is just way to slow.
I'd like to see the car run in fully developed form but sadly suspect the Nissan board may not wish to pour more money into sorting it particularly if the hybrid system has to be completely redesigned as is rumoured.
k, big publicity launch as part of a 90 second superbowl half time advert. Seriously guys at $4m per 30 seconds that's $12m US alone, this is not a low budget programme. Eurosport LM24 coverage sponsor, big hospitality setup etc this all costs lots of ££££.Then miss the first two events and turn up completely unready for the big one LM winning negative mainstream media coverage in the US where the car had been marketed heavily...
Was 15 months development too for the concept aggressive? certainly looks that way but why did Nissan go public back in January when the programme was known internally at that point to be well behind the planned development curve and why continue to spend big on PR around the car. They could of and should of gone low key this year and spent the time (and PR money) sorting out the issues then marketed heavily once it worked properly next year.
If Nissan can not make the hybrid system work in the current concept as planned there is no point in the car running at any of the remaining WEC events this year, without the hybrid system the car is just way to slow.
I'd like to see the car run in fully developed form but sadly suspect the Nissan board may not wish to pour more money into sorting it particularly if the hybrid system has to be completely redesigned as is rumoured.
DiscoColin said:
Dr JonboyG said:
I guess we'll find out at the Nurburgring, but despite the Audi's cornering I think the 919 Hybrid is going to have a huge advantage since it's running at 8MJ and not 4.
Will we? The last I heard they were not confirmed to show up pending a private test (separate from everyone else while the rest are all testing in Germany). I responded to something that Darren Cox posted on Facebook asking whether they were confirmed for the rest of the season (and whether there were any targets from the board for continued participation) but there was no response to that line of questioning. I wonder if Carlos Ghosen is considering pulling the plug actually..... ?
They have bailed on the next round WEC at the Nurburgring. Doesn't sound promising for the rest of the season really. Making a mockery of the WEC/Le Mans entry.
http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/nissan-to-skip-...
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/08/07/catching-...
http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/nissan-to-skip-...
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/08/07/catching-...
Edited by RobGT81 on Friday 7th August 14:21
They've just announced a delayed return to the WEC.
I'm starting to wonder if we won't see them back until 2016 now.
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=3b7e85c6366c81...
I'm starting to wonder if we won't see them back until 2016 now.
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=3b7e85c6366c81...
Funny thing about the DSC interview is Darren Cox saying that the reason they entered in 2015 was they wanted a 2 year program before the 2017 rule changes. Based on what's happened isn't it basically what will happen if they don't return in 2015? They will continue to test, might show up at Bahrain to see what it's like and then all they have is 1 season with however much they've spent. It's all ok though....Darren is being really open with the fans.
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