NISSAN LMP1...were they right?
Discussion
sirtyro said:
Funny thing about the DSC interview is Darren Cox saying that the reason they entered in 2015 was they wanted a 2 year program before the 2017 rule changes. Based on what's happened isn't it basically what will happen if they don't return in 2015? They will continue to test, might show up at Bahrain to see what it's like and then all they have is 1 season with however much they've spent. It's all ok though....Darren is being really open with the fans.
YouTube comments > trophies. 
Yup they want the attention. They will say in 2016 that they've proved all the nay sayers wrong and they got a lot of unjust criticism for being innovators but they can't admit they've let the fans down and not supported the series like the other manufactures.
Painting NISMO all over the circuit is not the same as having 3 competitive cars on the track.
Painting NISMO all over the circuit is not the same as having 3 competitive cars on the track.
I've no issue with the NISMO branding at the circuits, P2 would be a very different landscape without them after all. As for P1, well...
I would however like to see a good piece of subjective journalism on the whole program, from inception to now (or end). Not necessarily a hatchet job, that's not needed and there is lots to learn and appreciate from what Nissan have gone through and the decisions made, but a totally subjective article (probably book!) would be most interesting. However, you just need to see the vitriol that is received through social media if doubt is publically cast on the project (not from NISMO I hasten to add, but from run of the mill supporters) to see that that is unlikely to happen for a while.
Interesting project, fascinating engineering, lots of lessons to be learnt from every aspect of the project.
I would however like to see a good piece of subjective journalism on the whole program, from inception to now (or end). Not necessarily a hatchet job, that's not needed and there is lots to learn and appreciate from what Nissan have gone through and the decisions made, but a totally subjective article (probably book!) would be most interesting. However, you just need to see the vitriol that is received through social media if doubt is publically cast on the project (not from NISMO I hasten to add, but from run of the mill supporters) to see that that is unlikely to happen for a while.
Interesting project, fascinating engineering, lots of lessons to be learnt from every aspect of the project.
Dr JonboyG said:
I have been trying to give Cox the benefit of the doubt. But then he went and said this: https://twitter.com/IamDarrenCox/status/6229681080...
Cringeworthy.Red Firecracker said:
I've no issue with the NISMO branding at the circuits, P2 would be a very different landscape without them after all. As for P1, well...
I would however like to see a good piece of subjective journalism on the whole program, from inception to now (or end). Not necessarily a hatchet job, that's not needed and there is lots to learn and appreciate from what Nissan have gone through and the decisions made, but a totally subjective article (probably book!) would be most interesting. However, you just need to see the vitriol that is received through social media if doubt is publically cast on the project (not from NISMO I hasten to add, but from run of the mill supporters) to see that that is unlikely to happen for a while.
Interesting project, fascinating engineering, lots of lessons to be learnt from every aspect of the project.
A nice thought, but spectacularly optimistic. The issue is that anything objective will be perceived as a hatchet job by the Nismo apologists - with the best will in the world there simply isn't a way to tell the story that doesn't reflect badly on them in some way, shape or form. The moment that they spent an eight figure (US Dollar) sum on Superbowl adverts they were lining themselves up for a fall if they didn't deliver a credible project. And they didn't. Every time that they say anything about not having as much budget as other teams that comes back to the fore and bludgeons their premise.I would however like to see a good piece of subjective journalism on the whole program, from inception to now (or end). Not necessarily a hatchet job, that's not needed and there is lots to learn and appreciate from what Nissan have gone through and the decisions made, but a totally subjective article (probably book!) would be most interesting. However, you just need to see the vitriol that is received through social media if doubt is publically cast on the project (not from NISMO I hasten to add, but from run of the mill supporters) to see that that is unlikely to happen for a while.
Interesting project, fascinating engineering, lots of lessons to be learnt from every aspect of the project.
Then it comes back to the failed promises. The promise of a full season WEC programme that looks at this point as if it may not deliver anything other than an appearance at LeMans that equated to nothing more than embarrassment. One wonders if Max Chilton paid money for his full season WEC factory drive, and if so: did he get a refund? What about all of the fans (the real ones rather than simply Twitter and Facebook followers who own a Micra or Juke) who made plans to attend the races that they didn't show up for? In any other industry, even any other sport - management changes would have happened already.....
And yet, I really, really do hope that they get the chance to make it work. At least well enough to restore credibility to the marque that gave us their group C cars and of course (a personal favourite) the R390 GT1.
I do agree, Colin, but I still think it possible for a good piece of investigative journalism to be created on the project, it would just need someone with the balls, access and ability to present the facts clearly to do it. It would be a shame if 'the true (independent) story' were never to told.
With regards to the Superbowl advert, has it ever been verified that it was the race team's budget used or Nissan itself who coughed up? My understanding was that the two were separate and the only impact on the race team was the filming days at COTA, not that they were doing much fast running anyway. But yes, I would agree it was ill advised whoever paid for it, especially as it didn't seem to hit the mark with the non race fan demographic.
Chilton is doing a season of Indy Lights, so I imagine there is not a specific LMP1 contract from Nissan, but a 'you are now a Nissan driver and today you are driving X' type deal as they seem to like mixing up the programs of their drivers, just look at Ordenez in SuperGT and Mardenborough in GP3, VLN etc. I also think the real fans wouldn't have been going just to see that car, but that maybe just my view on the type of racing and its fan base.
As you, I do hope it runs and works as intended next year, it is a nice break from the norm, but I think it is a case of seeing what it can do for oneself rather than relying on PR, but has that ever really not been the case?
Still, keeps everyone mentioning and talking about Nissn and NISMO, doesn't it...
With regards to the Superbowl advert, has it ever been verified that it was the race team's budget used or Nissan itself who coughed up? My understanding was that the two were separate and the only impact on the race team was the filming days at COTA, not that they were doing much fast running anyway. But yes, I would agree it was ill advised whoever paid for it, especially as it didn't seem to hit the mark with the non race fan demographic.
Chilton is doing a season of Indy Lights, so I imagine there is not a specific LMP1 contract from Nissan, but a 'you are now a Nissan driver and today you are driving X' type deal as they seem to like mixing up the programs of their drivers, just look at Ordenez in SuperGT and Mardenborough in GP3, VLN etc. I also think the real fans wouldn't have been going just to see that car, but that maybe just my view on the type of racing and its fan base.
As you, I do hope it runs and works as intended next year, it is a nice break from the norm, but I think it is a case of seeing what it can do for oneself rather than relying on PR, but has that ever really not been the case?
Still, keeps everyone mentioning and talking about Nissn and NISMO, doesn't it...
RobGT81 said:
They have bailed on the next round WEC at the Nurburgring. Doesn't sound promising for the rest of the season really. Making a mockery of the WEC/Le Mans entry.
http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/nissan-to-skip-...
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/08/07/catching-...
'Won't rush back' does sound a lot like, we're not admitting to pulling the plug yet, but it's coming..http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/nissan-to-skip-...
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/08/07/catching-...
Edited by RobGT81 on Friday 7th August 14:21
Red Firecracker said:
I've no issue with the NISMO branding at the circuits, P2 would be a very different landscape without them after all. As for P1, well...
I would however like to see a good piece of subjective journalism on the whole program, from inception to now (or end). Not necessarily a hatchet job, that's not needed and there is lots to learn and appreciate from what Nissan have gone through and the decisions made, but a totally subjective article (probably book!) would be most interesting. However, you just need to see the vitriol that is received through social media if doubt is publically cast on the project (not from NISMO I hasten to add, but from run of the mill supporters) to see that that is unlikely to happen for a while.
Interesting project, fascinating engineering, lots of lessons to be learnt from every aspect of the project.
There's an interesting article in Racecar Engineering magazine though features equations still readable for the armchair fan. Writer seems to be a fanboy and I don't blame him; polishing a turd is fascinating project and part of the magazine's MO of investigating race engineering solutions eg, helped to mandate sharkfins in WEC. I would however like to see a good piece of subjective journalism on the whole program, from inception to now (or end). Not necessarily a hatchet job, that's not needed and there is lots to learn and appreciate from what Nissan have gone through and the decisions made, but a totally subjective article (probably book!) would be most interesting. However, you just need to see the vitriol that is received through social media if doubt is publically cast on the project (not from NISMO I hasten to add, but from run of the mill supporters) to see that that is unlikely to happen for a while.
Interesting project, fascinating engineering, lots of lessons to be learnt from every aspect of the project.
Basically RWD KERS needs to operate, more rearward weight distribution and better tyres from Michelin for the front wheels to cope with the massive loads however writer anticipates that Audi & Porsche will fight for any change in tyres.
I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that they should have waited until they were going to be competitive.
They started off by saying that they would take it to Audi, Porsche & Toyota and they would be leading and winning. That quickly turned into we will be running the same times, which quickly turned into we should be quicker than the P2 cars which then turned into we just have a goal for 1 of our 3 cars to finish. It's been a PR disaster no matter how much effort they have put in.
Look at Ford. Alright it's a GTE car which is less complex then a P1 car, but they had a car that had been built, tested and up and running before the press release....it wasn't just a render. Darren Cox can go on about how their project is the quickest P1 project from board approval to race track (he quotes 14 months and you could play a drinking game on how many times he says it during every interview), it will be the quickest P1 project from approval to track to bin.
As exciting as it is, they should have waited a year.
They started off by saying that they would take it to Audi, Porsche & Toyota and they would be leading and winning. That quickly turned into we will be running the same times, which quickly turned into we should be quicker than the P2 cars which then turned into we just have a goal for 1 of our 3 cars to finish. It's been a PR disaster no matter how much effort they have put in.
Look at Ford. Alright it's a GTE car which is less complex then a P1 car, but they had a car that had been built, tested and up and running before the press release....it wasn't just a render. Darren Cox can go on about how their project is the quickest P1 project from board approval to race track (he quotes 14 months and you could play a drinking game on how many times he says it during every interview), it will be the quickest P1 project from approval to track to bin.
As exciting as it is, they should have waited a year.
entropy said:
Red Firecracker said:
I've no issue with the NISMO branding at the circuits, P2 would be a very different landscape without them after all. As for P1, well...
I would however like to see a good piece of subjective journalism on the whole program, from inception to now (or end). Not necessarily a hatchet job, that's not needed and there is lots to learn and appreciate from what Nissan have gone through and the decisions made, but a totally subjective article (probably book!) would be most interesting. However, you just need to see the vitriol that is received through social media if doubt is publically cast on the project (not from NISMO I hasten to add, but from run of the mill supporters) to see that that is unlikely to happen for a while.
Interesting project, fascinating engineering, lots of lessons to be learnt from every aspect of the project.
There's an interesting article in Racecar Engineering magazine though features equations still readable for the armchair fan. Writer seems to be a fanboy and I don't blame him; polishing a turd is fascinating project and part of the magazine's MO of investigating race engineering solutions eg, helped to mandate sharkfins in WEC. I would however like to see a good piece of subjective journalism on the whole program, from inception to now (or end). Not necessarily a hatchet job, that's not needed and there is lots to learn and appreciate from what Nissan have gone through and the decisions made, but a totally subjective article (probably book!) would be most interesting. However, you just need to see the vitriol that is received through social media if doubt is publically cast on the project (not from NISMO I hasten to add, but from run of the mill supporters) to see that that is unlikely to happen for a while.
Interesting project, fascinating engineering, lots of lessons to be learnt from every aspect of the project.
Basically RWD KERS needs to operate, more rearward weight distribution and better tyres from Michelin for the front wheels to cope with the massive loads however writer anticipates that Audi & Porsche will fight for any change in tyres.
sirtyro said:
I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that they should have waited until they were going to be competitive.
They started off by saying that they would take it to Audi, Porsche & Toyota and they would be leading and winning. That quickly turned into we will be running the same times, which quickly turned into we should be quicker than the P2 cars which then turned into we just have a goal for 1 of our 3 cars to finish. It's been a PR disaster no matter how much effort they have put in.
Look at Ford. Alright it's a GTE car which is less complex then a P1 car, but they had a car that had been built, tested and up and running before the press release....it wasn't just a render. Darren Cox can go on about how their project is the quickest P1 project from board approval to race track (he quotes 14 months and you could play a drinking game on how many times he says it during every interview), it will be the quickest P1 project from approval to track to bin.
As exciting as it is, they should have waited a year.
Looks rather similar to a Daytona Prototype in some areas, the Ford. Strange that..... (but yes, I get your point).They started off by saying that they would take it to Audi, Porsche & Toyota and they would be leading and winning. That quickly turned into we will be running the same times, which quickly turned into we should be quicker than the P2 cars which then turned into we just have a goal for 1 of our 3 cars to finish. It's been a PR disaster no matter how much effort they have put in.
Look at Ford. Alright it's a GTE car which is less complex then a P1 car, but they had a car that had been built, tested and up and running before the press release....it wasn't just a render. Darren Cox can go on about how their project is the quickest P1 project from board approval to race track (he quotes 14 months and you could play a drinking game on how many times he says it during every interview), it will be the quickest P1 project from approval to track to bin.
As exciting as it is, they should have waited a year.
chevronb37 said:
Was the authoer of the article Sam Collins by chance?
Yes, it is a Sam Collins piece.Red Firecracker said:
sirtyro said:
I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that they should have waited until they were going to be competitive.
They started off by saying that they would take it to Audi, Porsche & Toyota and they would be leading and winning. That quickly turned into we will be running the same times, which quickly turned into we should be quicker than the P2 cars which then turned into we just have a goal for 1 of our 3 cars to finish. It's been a PR disaster no matter how much effort they have put in.
Look at Ford. Alright it's a GTE car which is less complex then a P1 car, but they had a car that had been built, tested and up and running before the press release....it wasn't just a render. Darren Cox can go on about how their project is the quickest P1 project from board approval to race track (he quotes 14 months and you could play a drinking game on how many times he says it during every interview), it will be the quickest P1 project from approval to track to bin.
As exciting as it is, they should have waited a year.
Looks rather similar to a Daytona Prototype in some areas, the Ford. Strange that..... (but yes, I get your point).They started off by saying that they would take it to Audi, Porsche & Toyota and they would be leading and winning. That quickly turned into we will be running the same times, which quickly turned into we should be quicker than the P2 cars which then turned into we just have a goal for 1 of our 3 cars to finish. It's been a PR disaster no matter how much effort they have put in.
Look at Ford. Alright it's a GTE car which is less complex then a P1 car, but they had a car that had been built, tested and up and running before the press release....it wasn't just a render. Darren Cox can go on about how their project is the quickest P1 project from board approval to race track (he quotes 14 months and you could play a drinking game on how many times he says it during every interview), it will be the quickest P1 project from approval to track to bin.
As exciting as it is, they should have waited a year.
chevronb37 said:
Was the authoer of the article Sam Collins by chance?
Yes, it is a Sam Collins piece.I sit corrected.
Does it have much different information/slant than the online version;
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/nissan-gt-...
Does it have much different information/slant than the online version;
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/nissan-gt-...
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