NISSAN LMP1...were they right?
Discussion
Red Firecracker said:
Total project cancellation and announced to the workers in possibly the most shameful way possible (an email and a bloke at the door changing the access code).
Thank you. Like I said, only a slight surprise though. I'd have been stunned if they had done a full WEC program next year.PW said:
Nissan have been powering most of the P2 cars that have raced at Le Mans/WEC, they've been responsible for bringing in some great drivers to compete and win at Le Mans with GT Academy, and have sponsored Radio Le Mans' excellent commentary and coverage over the years, along with Andy Blackmore's spotter guides.
LMP1 is better off without this shambles of a project making everyone look like fools, but I think it would be a great shame if Nissan pulled all of their support for endurance racing because of it.
I think the highlight for me was when they got Gérard Neveu to publicly support their commitment to racing in the rest of the WEC after Le Mans, only to announce days later that they were pulling out.
I should've been more specific and stated LMP1, I got a bit ranty LMP1 is better off without this shambles of a project making everyone look like fools, but I think it would be a great shame if Nissan pulled all of their support for endurance racing because of it.
I think the highlight for me was when they got Gérard Neveu to publicly support their commitment to racing in the rest of the WEC after Le Mans, only to announce days later that they were pulling out.
37chevy said:
I don't have a problem with him driving with Nissan! There are plenty of other wealthy businessmen out there who keep the WEC alive.....probably about 90% of the field has one in their car, so why exclude Hoy?
I don;t have a problem if he wants to go racing, I have a problem with the fact he is being paid to go racing where younger/better talent is being ignored.other "wealthy businessmen" as you put it pay their own way.
Scuffers said:
gt academy is just another marketing project.
If it was about getting great drivers why not just go with the ones that are already out there just struggling for opportunities?
Putting chris hoy in a car makes the point, he's next to useless but he's being out in everything (as well as wiping out a car at goodwood), he might be about to ride a bike, but he can't drive for s
t.)
Their message was clear; Gamer to racer. Virtual to reality. They used the Gran Turismo platform to source some excellent drivers. But more importantly they; gained brand awareness, created business to business opportunities, could offer hospitality to other sponsors, sell merchandise, increase customer database, prove corporate and social responsibility as well as a platform for sales incentives to staff in and around Nissan. If it was about getting great drivers why not just go with the ones that are already out there just struggling for opportunities?
Putting chris hoy in a car makes the point, he's next to useless but he's being out in everything (as well as wiping out a car at goodwood), he might be about to ride a bike, but he can't drive for s
t.)Edited by Scuffers on Wednesday 23 December 07:38
Over all I'd say the GT Academy was a brilliant success. It gave a lot of people jobs, provided a brilliant competition to gamers and offered a different spectacle in GP2 and Le Mans, to say the least.
Your problem with Chris Hoy seems to contradict itself. It's either because younger/better drivers are being overlooked, OR because he isn't paying his way himself (if that's true). I don't see how it can be both. Either way, the benefits to Nissan can't be overlooked and therefore you can't hold it against them, nor against Hoy himself.
Scuffers said:
I don;t have a problem if he wants to go racing, I have a problem with the fact he is being paid to go racing where younger/better talent is being ignored.
other "wealthy businessmen" as you put it pay their own way.
Yes but since lmp3 teams have to have at least 1 bronze level driver because it's a pro/am category then Hoy is an ideal candidate....yes he 'may' be being paid to do it (I've not seen this anywhere other that your own claim) but if he is then it's good value for Nissan from the media exposure alone....which another normal businessman paying his own way wouldn't attractother "wealthy businessmen" as you put it pay their own way.
Scuffers said:
exactly Marketing ahead of Talent that's the point I was making
1) give the guy a chance, he's on a massive learning curve2) the marketing is a good thing, it brings publicity to the sport
3) ok then get rid of hoy and just put another average businessman into the seat as per the lmp3 rules....what good will that do?
So are you more peeved at the fact hoy isn't paying his way.....because through the media exposure for Nissan I'm guessing they get back the money they put in, or his lack of talent as you call it,,,,,coz let's face it another rich businessman wouldn't be any better....so really what is your point? Chris is a good marketing tool and not a bad driver....certainly no worse than if some rich banker or accountant was in his seat, so I really don't see what the problem is!
Scuffers said:
I don;t have a problem if he wants to go racing, I have a problem with the fact he is being paid to go racing where younger/better talent is being ignored.
other "wealthy businessmen" as you put it pay their own way.
Where have you got info from that he is being paid exactly?other "wealthy businessmen" as you put it pay their own way.
And even if he is being paid then its value added to Nissan for the publicity....other businessmen wouldn't give that to Nissan so it's win win.....let's face it, Charlie Robertson has benefited from it this year
Scuffers said:
Or 4) give the drive to a young upcommer who is still unseaded.
Like a bunch of gamers who had practically zero previous racing experience? Can't get much more unproven than that...I can't see your problem, perhaps you're not telling the full story?
Everything up until the LM-P1 project was commendable in my opinion.
SpeedMattersNot said:
Scuffers said:
Or 4) give the drive to a young upcommer who is still unseaded.
Like a bunch of gamers who had practically zero previous racing experience? Can't get much more unproven than that...ie. they have some talent, and are already 100% pushing for a carrier in Motorsport, not some spotty play-station obsessed kid who's spent so much time in their bedroom they have zero social skills etc.
and no, I have no self-interest in this what so ever, I'm far to old/fat/slow to earn a place at Le Mans. (that said, I am head and shoulders better behind the wheel that the likes of Sir Chris, not that that's saying much!)
We'll never know the ROI of this programme, but I'd guess it created more positive PR for Nismo, Nissan and GTR than many more conventional motorsport investments.
I've seen more (largely positive)column inches, forums, blogs, Facebook posts about this car than almost any other manufacturer programme this year.
Compare it to the lack of positive coverage for programmes such as VW in WRC, Honda in F1, Renault's F1 re-investment (all, I assume are more expensive programmes) or the general lack of interest from mainstream media in investments such as Audi and Toyota in WEC (Porsche was an exception this year). I would be sure that the profile of Nismo has been boosted by this programme. More significantly, it has targeted a younger demographic - something that endurance racing has failed to do in recent years.
Until GT Academy, I'd guess that the average teen gamer didn't know what Blancpain, the Spa 24h or LMP1/LMP2 was. Nismo helped make that connection relevant to a whole new demographic group.
And as for the comments on Sir Chris. Of the several hundred people that turned up to watch ELMS at Silverstone, I think that a healthy majority came because of his presence.
There's more than one way to measure success of marketing investments in motorsport, and it isn't always by winning the race. That's why I'm sad to read that the project isn't being given at least one more year.
I've seen more (largely positive)column inches, forums, blogs, Facebook posts about this car than almost any other manufacturer programme this year.
Compare it to the lack of positive coverage for programmes such as VW in WRC, Honda in F1, Renault's F1 re-investment (all, I assume are more expensive programmes) or the general lack of interest from mainstream media in investments such as Audi and Toyota in WEC (Porsche was an exception this year). I would be sure that the profile of Nismo has been boosted by this programme. More significantly, it has targeted a younger demographic - something that endurance racing has failed to do in recent years.
Until GT Academy, I'd guess that the average teen gamer didn't know what Blancpain, the Spa 24h or LMP1/LMP2 was. Nismo helped make that connection relevant to a whole new demographic group.
And as for the comments on Sir Chris. Of the several hundred people that turned up to watch ELMS at Silverstone, I think that a healthy majority came because of his presence.
There's more than one way to measure success of marketing investments in motorsport, and it isn't always by winning the race. That's why I'm sad to read that the project isn't being given at least one more year.
This would be Sir Chris Hoy, 2015 ELMS LMP3 Champion along with Charlie Robertson.
Yes, competition in the P3 class was a touch hit and miss this year, it's a new car and class after all with all that that entails, but watching him at Paul Ricard, he's no slouch. The Championship win was very much deserved, not only on his speed, but his race craft and awareness as well. Doesn't harm that he's a bloody nice bloke as well.
For every one that makes it, they'll always be hundreds (?) who are better (?) who don't. That's the way it has always been, that's the way it'll always be, ain't life a bh, but at least the GT Academy system is bringing more opportunity to those without the financial backing behind them.
Yes, competition in the P3 class was a touch hit and miss this year, it's a new car and class after all with all that that entails, but watching him at Paul Ricard, he's no slouch. The Championship win was very much deserved, not only on his speed, but his race craft and awareness as well. Doesn't harm that he's a bloody nice bloke as well.
For every one that makes it, they'll always be hundreds (?) who are better (?) who don't. That's the way it has always been, that's the way it'll always be, ain't life a b
h, but at least the GT Academy system is bringing more opportunity to those without the financial backing behind them.Redlake27 said:
We'll never know the ROI of this programme, but I'd guess it created more positive PR for Nismo, Nissan and GTR than many more conventional motorsport investments.
I've seen more (largely positive)column inches, forums, blogs, Facebook posts about this car than almost any other manufacturer programme this year.
Compare it to the lack of positive coverage for programmes such as VW in WRC, Honda in F1, Renault's F1 re-investment (all, I assume are more expensive programmes) or the general lack of interest from mainstream media in investments such as Audi and Toyota in WEC (Porsche was an exception this year). I would be sure that the profile of Nismo has been boosted by this programme. More significantly, it has targeted a younger demographic - something that endurance racing has failed to do in recent years.
Until GT Academy, I'd guess that the average teen gamer didn't know what Blancpain, the Spa 24h or LMP1/LMP2 was. Nismo helped make that connection relevant to a whole new demographic group.
And as for the comments on Sir Chris. Of the several hundred people that turned up to watch ELMS at Silverstone, I think that a healthy majority came because of his presence.
There's more than one way to measure success of marketing investments in motorsport, and it isn't always by winning the race. That's why I'm sad to read that the project isn't being given at least one more year.
Very much this! I've seen more (largely positive)column inches, forums, blogs, Facebook posts about this car than almost any other manufacturer programme this year.
Compare it to the lack of positive coverage for programmes such as VW in WRC, Honda in F1, Renault's F1 re-investment (all, I assume are more expensive programmes) or the general lack of interest from mainstream media in investments such as Audi and Toyota in WEC (Porsche was an exception this year). I would be sure that the profile of Nismo has been boosted by this programme. More significantly, it has targeted a younger demographic - something that endurance racing has failed to do in recent years.
Until GT Academy, I'd guess that the average teen gamer didn't know what Blancpain, the Spa 24h or LMP1/LMP2 was. Nismo helped make that connection relevant to a whole new demographic group.
And as for the comments on Sir Chris. Of the several hundred people that turned up to watch ELMS at Silverstone, I think that a healthy majority came because of his presence.
There's more than one way to measure success of marketing investments in motorsport, and it isn't always by winning the race. That's why I'm sad to read that the project isn't being given at least one more year.
I hope the LeMans failure doesn't detract from everything else Nissan, Nismo and Darren Cox have done for endurance racing since the inception of GT Academy.
I'm by no means a Nismo fanboy, I was as sceptical of the claims and watched the opening hour of LeMans from before Tetre Rouge and it was quite evident how bad things were pace wise. But the Gran Turismo generation's interest in Endurance is a good thing and Nissan are the reason for that.
I just hope that Nissan get a GTPro GTR effort together to pitch Hoy against Porsche's Dempsey effort @ LeMans
Scuffers said:
err... understatement of the century!
You can only beat the competition your up against, and that driver combination was the best out there...end of story, they won the championship......it's ok saying Nissan should have put another bronze level driver in there to give them a leg up but Nissan want to see a return on investment....they get that with hoy....look at all those kids in junior formula throwing money at it and getting nothing back...either they're not good enough or don't give sponsors a good enough ROI...it isn't a charity out there, it's a business. Nissan have the gt academy which gives young drivers a chance....it's not like they aren't giving people an opportunity
Give hoy some credit, he's on a very steap learning curve and has come on massively in a very short space of time and is obviously commuted to doing well for himself and Nissan....much better than other gentlemen drivers out there
Scuffers said:
err... understatement of the century!
Maybe, but that does not detract from how Hoy and Robinson drove and raced the car. Both were good, both deserved the Championship victory and the way Hoy developed over the season was good to see. His driving in traffic (which they were doing much more of amongst the GT field due to the limitations of the car) was very good, decisive when needed and space given when required. He also apparently impressed the Greaves team in the test he did with them.Yes, his opportunities with Nissan come from his work as their Ambassador to the British Olympic Association and Paralympic Association, but I certainly don't believe he is unworthy of his seat.
Scuffers said:
ie. they have some talent, and are already 100% pushing for a carrier in Motorsport, not some spotty play-station obsessed kid who's spent so much time in their bedroom they have zero social skills etc.
No one would make it to the final of GT Academy if they had zero social skills. You can't be a professional racing driver and not be able to talk to potential sponsors etc in this day and age.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff