NISSAN LMP1...were they right?

[RobGT81]

Carlos Ghosn not impressed so far.

"Nissan has always been associated with innovation . We made an attempt that does not prove fruitful, we must reassess the strategy. We wanted to be different and competitive, we have only been different."

[acer12]

While it has been a failure on the track, I think that Cox's continued arrogance writing cheques he couldn't cash made it many many times worse. Cant see him staying on, he deserves to go.

[sirtyro]

acer12 said:

While it has been a failure on the track, I think that Cox's continued arrogance writing cheques he couldn't cash made it many many times worse. Cant see him staying on, he deserves to go.

He's in charge of all the NISMO global projects so not just LMP1. I don't think they will get rid of him and I think they could get competitive with time, I just think they should have waited another year.

Here is another question, were they wrong to be based in the US? They did all their testing there and while they do have a unit at Silverstone Park which they use for 1 month of the year, was being away from testing at European tracks away from european talent another hinderance?!

[Ahonen]

sirtyro said:

Here is another question, were they wrong to be based in the US? They did all their testing there and while they do have a unit at Silverstone Park which they use for 1 month of the year, was being away from testing at European tracks away from european talent another hinderance?!

I think you've outlined what many people in the industry thought when it was announced that they'd be based there. Sportscar racing is generally based in Europe in the same way that F1 is based in the UK. When your car is being built thousands of miles away from your power unit supplier it's always going to be difficult.

[corozin]

There has been some fairly comprehensive analysis of the car's issues in various periodicals, but amongst the key points are:
- It's a brand new concept
- The testing programme and development was seriously set back by the failed crash test in March
- They were forced to abandon the rear drive hybrid, and this had a number of significant impacts to the overall concept design, including :

a) The car was majorly down on power
b) The weight distribution moved forward adversely
c) Without the regen the front wheels were forced to do all the work, and significantly, larger front brakes were required
d) The larger brakes meant larget wheels also had to be used to fit them inside, meaning the high profile tyre important to the concept could not be used
e) A suspension design issue led to the drivers being instructed to keep off the kerbs to preserve the car

In addition to the above, Nissan did underestimate the advances the opposition teams would make in 2015, which by any measures, have been extraordinary. This year's Porsche/Nissan/Toyotas are perhaps 3s-4s a lap faster at most circuits than last year's cars.

But regardless I think Nissan were brave to push ahead, and racing the car at Le Mans has blooded the team and given them loads of data with which to work as they develop it. I just hope Nissan stay the course and have the confidence in the concept to keep developing it, because potentially it *could* use what they learned with the Deltawing concept to take them to the very front of LMP (theoretically)

[shoestring7]

MissChief said:

Scuffers said:

who exactly said that and when?

first mid-engined F1 car was the Cooper T51



nobody laughed at it when Jack Brabham took the championship with it.

But everybody did when it first came out?

That Cooper wasn't the first successful mid-engined Grand Prix car by a long chalk.

SS7

[sirtyro]

PW said:

Those issues were caused by abandoning the entire hybrid system, not just the rear drive aspect.

And it's this point that I don't understand. How can the FIA/WEC allow them to race in the hybrid class when they don't have one? Obviously it's an easy answer and they have to be seen to be with the other works teams but do they at least even have to carry the system?

Be interesting to see them in Germany

[RobGT81]

sirtyro said:

And it's this point that I don't understand. How can the FIA/WEC allow them to race in the hybrid class when they don't have one? Obviously it's an easy answer and they have to be seen to be with the other works teams but do they at least even have to carry the system?

Be interesting to see them in Germany

As a factory team they have to race in a hybrid class, even if they aren't using the hybrid power. Only private teams can race LMP1s with no hybrid. I presume they have to carry the hybrid system or at least ballast to hit weight.

Edited by RobGT81 on Thursday 2nd July 09:02

[RobGT81]

Strange interview from Darren Cox, apparently the car went from a blank piece of paper to racing at Le Mans in 3 months :-/

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/16338/le-mans-and-th...

[Asterix]

No racing went on, whatever he says...

[Megaflow]

RobGT81 said:

Strange interview from Darren Cox, apparently the car went from a blank piece of paper to racing at Le Mans in 3 months :-/

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/16338/le-mans-and-th...

So according to Mr Cox, this isn't the car out testing in February then...

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/the-nissan-lmp1-car-...

[RobGT81]

They are not so certain about Nurburgring now.
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/07/16/nissan-to...

Future being decided.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/future-of-nissa...

Edited by RobGT81 on Thursday 16th July 14:32

[Mutley]

RobGT81 said:

They are not so certain about Nurburgring now.
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/07/16/nissan-to...

Future being decided.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/future-of-nissa...

Edited by RobGT81 on Thursday 16th July 14:32

In DSC they have said they need to see what happens at the COTA test, not that they don't expect to be there
As for 365, they are 2 weeks behind with their quotes, also, Nissan have only said they are reviewing the program, not that it is in doubt, tell me what manufacturer doesn't regularly review their motorsport programs??
Sportscar365 is an awful clickbait site, almost as bad as motorsport dot com.

[Mutley]

PW said:

You're making stuff up to make them sound bad... so... axe to grind?

Personal opinion of 365.

[DanielSan]

Why bother racing the car without the hybrid system? Surely any setup or development work is rendered useless once there is power going to the rear wheels aswell?

[sirtyro]

While its true they have been excellent at social media and engaging with the fans, this could very quickly turn into a PR nightmare. The more I hear from Darren Cox the less credible he sounds. I'm not trying to take away from their accomplishments, which are many, but now they just seem to be retreating.

I also can't tell Nissan how to spend their money, but they need to show up to all the remaining WEC rounds and commit to the new LMP1 rules. He goes on about how Audi have 15 years experience, well commit to the championship and get on with it like everyone else.

[MissChief]

DanielSan said:

Why bother racing the car without the hybrid system? Surely any setup or development work is rendered useless once there is power going to the rear wheels aswell?

They said they would be there so felt they should be. The ACO rules said as a manufacturer they must carry a hybrid system so it couldn't be removed either. Also a good test session through different operating conditions. No doubt they learned a thing or two more about the car.

[chevronb37]

sirtyro said:

While its true they have been excellent at social media and engaging with the fans, this could very quickly turn into a PR nightmare. The more I hear from Darren Cox the less credible he sounds. I'm not trying to take away from their accomplishments, which are many, but now they just seem to be retreating.

I also can't tell Nissan how to spend their money, but they need to show up to all the remaining WEC rounds and commit to the new LMP1 rules. He goes on about how Audi have 15 years experience, well commit to the championship and get on with it like everyone else.

I’m starting to feel the same. One of the reasons cited for the alternative approach was that Audi has 15 years in the game. Well, Peugeot produced a supremely quick car straight out of the box, Toyota ditto and look at Porsche – Le Mans winners in year two. Given the correct staffing, support and resources, Nissan had every reason to be ‘credible’ - as he stressed.

I actually think the programme is looking the opposite of credible. The car is miles off the pace, unreliable and I’m afraid that crediting oneself as ‘the fan favourite’ is immodest and does no justice to any claims to be ‘racers’. I’d sacrifice all the open source, fan engagement in exchange for a fast, legitimate and credible LMP1 car.

I whole-heartedly support any major works race programme but I think this has been poorly executed.

[sirtyro]

chevronb37 said:

I’m starting to feel the same. One of the reasons cited for the alternative approach was that Audi has 15 years in the game. Well, Peugeot produced a supremely quick car straight out of the box, Toyota ditto and look at Porsche – Le Mans winners in year two. Given the correct staffing, support and resources, Nissan had every reason to be ‘credible’ - as he stressed.

I actually think the programme is looking the opposite of credible. The car is miles off the pace, unreliable and I’m afraid that crediting oneself as ‘the fan favourite’ is immodest and does no justice to any claims to be ‘racers’. I’d sacrifice all the open source, fan engagement in exchange for a fast, legitimate and credible LMP1 car.

I whole-heartedly support any major works race programme but I think this has been poorly executed.

Great Post! But....moving forward, they are where they are. They can't and I imagine wont, as it isn't the Japanese way to back down and change the car now, so what do they do?

They have to get on with making the hybrid work and better cornering. They do have a quick straight line speed but aerodynamically in the corners they are slow and overall the car is unreliable. I hope they make it work as I think its good for WEC to have more manufactures but I think Darren needs to get off his high horse and get on with the work in hand.

[corozin]

Nissan's argument is that the risk of doing something truly revolutionary is worth it and I admire that. If you consider what Nissan learned a few years ago with the Deltawing project, it's easy to see how that car has influenced the thinking behind the GTR-LM.

It's easy to slag Nissan off on the basis of what happened at Le Mans but if you look at thier history with both the Deltawing and more recently with thier electric car (which completed a qualifying lap at Le Mans under pure electric power last year) then provided Nissan stick with the project it's only a matter of tine before they make the car competitive.

The other thing I think people don't fully appreciate is just how much progress the Audis & Porsches have made this year. Toyota were well off the pace this year at the 24h, and have made noises about a completely new powertrain for next year.