NISSAN LMP1...were they right?

[Dr JonboyG]

corozin said:

Nissan's argument is that the risk of doing something truly revolutionary is worth it and I admire that. If you consider what Nissan learned a few years ago with the Deltawing project, it's easy to see how that car has influenced the thinking behind the GTR-LM.

It's easy to slag Nissan off on the basis of what happened at Le Mans but if you look at thier history with both the Deltawing and more recently with thier electric car (which completed a qualifying lap at Le Mans under pure electric power last year) then provided Nissan stick with the project it's only a matter of tine before they make the car competitive.

The other thing I think people don't fully appreciate is just how much progress the Audis & Porsches have made this year. Toyota were well off the pace this year at the 24h, and have made noises about a completely new powertrain for next year.

Nissan supplied the engine for the Deltawing, then buggered off into the sunset after less than a year, poaching Ben Bowlby at the same time. And the ZEOD RC was a failure too.

Is there any evidence at all that a purely mechanical ERS system will actually work in a racing car? I'd love to see the GT-R LM be a contender but I'm getting much more skeptical.

[MissChief]

Dr JonboyG said:

Nissan supplied the engine for the Deltawing, then buggered off into the sunset after less than a year, poaching Ben Bowlby at the same time. And the ZEOD RC was a failure too.

Is there any evidence at all that a purely mechanical ERS system will actually work in a racing car? I'd love to see the GT-R LM be a contender but I'm getting much more skeptical.

Porsche used a Flywheel based system developed by Williams in a 911 based car I believe? There have been a few others as well I'm sure. The flywheel sits in a vacuum chamber in the cockpit to the right of the driver in the 911.

[Scuffers]

MissChief said:

Porsche used a Flywheel based system developed by Williams in a 911 based car I believe? There have been a few others as well I'm sure. The flywheel sits in a vacuum chamber in the cockpit to the right of the driver in the 911.

that's not mechanical though, it's a flywheel battery effectively, no mechanical link to the flywheel.

[sirtyro]

MissChief said:

Porsche used a Flywheel based system developed by Williams in a 911 based car I believe? There have been a few others as well I'm sure. The flywheel sits in a vacuum chamber in the cockpit to the right of the driver in the 911.

Doesn't it spin at something stupid like 60,000rpm and can gain 19,000rpm a second. I think a Top Gear mag article also said the outer edge of the flywheel is doing 47,000g, creating its own sonic boom.

Would be a really bad day if the flywheel casing failed.

[Scuffers]

sirtyro said:

MissChief said:

Porsche used a Flywheel based system developed by Williams in a 911 based car I believe? There have been a few others as well I'm sure. The flywheel sits in a vacuum chamber in the cockpit to the right of the driver in the 911.

Doesn't it spin at something stupid like 60,000rpm and can gain 19,000rpm a second. I think a Top Gear mag article also said the outer edge of the flywheel is doing 47,000g, creating its own sonic boom.

Would be a really bad day if the flywheel casing failed.

Williams sold it to GKN.

http://www.gkn.com/landsystems/brands/hybrid-power...

they quote 45,000Rpm and 4Mj capacity at the moment

[Dr JonboyG]

MissChief said:

Porsche used a Flywheel based system developed by Williams in a 911 based car I believe? There have been a few others as well I'm sure. The flywheel sits in a vacuum chamber in the cockpit to the right of the driver in the 911.

More to the point the Audi R-18 e tron has been using a flywheel in LMP1 since it debuted and they've won Le Mans with it several times. But as Scuffers points out, it's not a mechanical system. An MGU sends power to the flywheel electrically. Nissan's idea was to run gearing off the wheels that would spin the flywheel purely mechanically.

[DMN]

Theres a really good piece on Daily Sports Car that sums up how I feel. Yes the car lacked at Le Mans this year, but it was very fast in a straight line and there are massive gains to be made in its cornering speed.

[Mutley]

I presume you have aired your views directly with Mr Goodwin?

[Asterix]

It's been a farce, frankly.

I'd be ashamed if I was in charge of that project.

I'd have been sacked.

[Asterix]

To qualify.

For a front wheel drive, front engined car with some electrical stuff that didn't really work its been great.

To compete with Audi, Porsche etc...

To do a few laps without failing...

Not so good.

[IanUAE]

I like listening to Radio Le Mans, they do tend to "defend" the performance of Nissans GTR-LM and have Darren Cox in the studio / Skype all of the time. Coincidence that NISMO sponsor a lot of their coverage / pit lane reports?........

Darren Cox also likes to say that their GTR GT3 car performs better than it should given its frontal area as compared to the other GT3 cars. Well build a more suitable car then rather than complain.

I now tend to switch off when Darren Cox is talking.

[wildman0609]

IanUAE said:

I now tend to switch off when Darren Cox is talking.

Same here. Personally I'd like to see/hear some unbiased coverage of the Nissan LMP1 program.

personally I think the Nissan LMP1 was a big pile of st. We were promised a new LMP1 works manufacturer team, and therefore we expected to have an extra 3 cars forced into the already ultra competitive LMP1 field, and improve the already great racing. instead we have a waste of space team that gets disproportionately high media coverage because its different.

At le mans I'd much rather 3 extra competitive cars in other classes than this.

[RobGT81]

wildman0609 said:

At le mans I'd much rather 3 extra competitive cars in other classes than this.

Yes I'm starting to think it's no coincidence than DSC and RLM are heavily sponsored by Nismo and seem to be unanimous in praise for the Nissan LMP1.

This years entry makes them look no better than the JLOC Lambos, taking up garages that race ready teams could occupy at Le Mans and in the WEC. Darren Cox and his PR team are better suited to F1 or WWE.

[wildman0609]

RobGT81 said:

Yes I'm starting to think it's no coincidence than DSC and RLM are heavily sponsored by Nismo and seem to be unanimous in praise for the Nissan LMP1.

This years entry makes them look no better than the JLOC Lambos, taking up garages that race ready teams could occupy at Le Mans and in the WEC. Darren Cox and his PR team are better suited to F1 or WWE.

We've seen this coming too, only Nissan could build something as bad as the Zeod rc and claim it was a success.

[MissChief]

wildman0609 said:

RobGT81 said:

Yes I'm starting to think it's no coincidence than DSC and RLM are heavily sponsored by Nismo and seem to be unanimous in praise for the Nissan LMP1.

This years entry makes them look no better than the JLOC Lambos, taking up garages that race ready teams could occupy at Le Mans and in the WEC. Darren Cox and his PR team are better suited to F1 or WWE.

We've seen this coming too, only Nissan could build something as bad as the Zeod rc and claim it was a success.

It did what they intended it to do, run a full lap under electrical power?

[wildman0609]

MissChief said:

It did what they intended it to do, run a full lap under electrical power?

you can't seriously say that a car that did 23mins of a 24hr race was a success.

it was a race car in a race. it should be there to compete, the same as the GTR-LM.

[Dr JonboyG]

I have been trying to give Cox the benefit of the doubt. But then he went and said this: https://twitter.com/IamDarrenCox/status/6229681080...

[RobGT81]

Sounds like they are ditching the mechanical flywheel entirely and going for batteries. Also sounds like some massive fundamental issues with the chassis.

http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/item/119517-pruet...

[lestiq]

was fortunate enough to blag my way into the Nissan pit, spent a while chatting with this guy - they were pretty deflated, but he had a little glint in his eye and said " we've got the straight line pace for sure, next year will be back with a bang" I really loved the enthusiasm that the whole team had for the project and they were understandably gutted with their ultimate performance which was off the pace entirely. We were chatting about it all the way home, with a front driver you are completely committed once you get on the power and with the WEC you are racing against multiple classes, so whenever they caught traffic it would no doubt have been pretty intimidating for the drivers. Obviously it really was more than just that, their qualifying time was miles off also.

I wish them the best of luck for next year and I hope to see them back out with guns blazing.




I did like they way it looked : )

[lestiq]

RobGT81 said:

Sounds like they are ditching the mechanical flywheel entirely and going for batteries. Also sounds like some massive fundamental issues with the chassis.

http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/item/119517-pruet...

thanks for sharing, that was a really interesting read. They had a dreadful amount of issues they had to drive around no wonder they were struggling like they were!