** Official WRC Finland Thread **
Discussion
RyanTank said:
VW are running away with it as no other team in the championship are giving 100% to it like they are. Hyundai aren't otherwise the new car would have been ready by now.
100% of what? Would Hyundai even be allowed to run the new car before next year if it was ready? Think there are rules about that.Great drive by Jari-Matti, good to see him having a good nudge at the powerstage instead of just cruising it.
I mean 100% as in development, testing and just throwing money at the outfit, like the WRC of old.
Hyundai were suposed to introduce the new gen i20 around about now, but have put that back to introduce it for the start of the 2016 season.
From the Hyundai website in April - https://motorsport.hyundai.com/en/news/view/5748?p...
I know VW made Mikkelsen wait until Portugal for his updates, but if Hyundai were smart about it and realising that Paddon has been out performing the first choice drivers in the old car he should have had the updates already and not be made to wait until Germany to be on level terms with Thierry and Dani.
Some consolation for Kris getting a powerstage point. He could have easily cruised and just got a finish as Matton wants. But I dont think he's got it in him to just cruise and accept it as others are displaying.
Mads Ostberg however is probably lapping up Meekes failures as its taking the attention away from his mediocre season. He doesnt seem to be showing half as much determination, in my eyes, that he did when he was at Ford. But perhaps he's aware that a finish is a finish and looks good for the boss, whereas the likes of Meeke see a win as the best way of pleasing the boss?
Hyundai were suposed to introduce the new gen i20 around about now, but have put that back to introduce it for the start of the 2016 season.
From the Hyundai website in April - https://motorsport.hyundai.com/en/news/view/5748?p...
I know VW made Mikkelsen wait until Portugal for his updates, but if Hyundai were smart about it and realising that Paddon has been out performing the first choice drivers in the old car he should have had the updates already and not be made to wait until Germany to be on level terms with Thierry and Dani.
Some consolation for Kris getting a powerstage point. He could have easily cruised and just got a finish as Matton wants. But I dont think he's got it in him to just cruise and accept it as others are displaying.
Mads Ostberg however is probably lapping up Meekes failures as its taking the attention away from his mediocre season. He doesnt seem to be showing half as much determination, in my eyes, that he did when he was at Ford. But perhaps he's aware that a finish is a finish and looks good for the boss, whereas the likes of Meeke see a win as the best way of pleasing the boss?
Driving back to Helsinki after a wonderful weekend in the forests. What an incredible experience! It deserves its place as one of the ultimate motor sporting events in the world. I'll try to do some justice to it in proper words and photos soon. Such a privilege to see a Finn win as well. Magic.
RyanTank said:
Some consolation for Kris getting a powerstage point. He could have easily cruised and just got a finish as Matton wants. But I dont think he's got it in him to just cruise and accept it as others are displaying.
Mads Ostberg however is probably lapping up Meekes failures as its taking the attention away from his mediocre season. He doesnt seem to be showing half as much determination, in my eyes, that he did when he was at Ford. But perhaps he's aware that a finish is a finish and looks good for the boss, whereas the likes of Meeke see a win as the best way of pleasing the boss?
I think this weekend confirmed Meeke is unlikely to be with Citroen next year - his year is turning out to be abysmal, apart from the win, he just keeps falling off, even when in a very secure 3rd place. It's really gutting as he has the raw pace - but is just too accident prone. The one saving grace could be that Citroen are still trying to decide what to do 2017 and beyond. Mads is a very good consistent number 2, and is racking up points nicely, without the outright pace. If Citroen can get Loeb back next year, then Loeb/Ostberg seems a likely team giving the 'holding' nature of 2016. It's a shame, would be lovely to have Meeke consistently finishing in the top 3. Maybe his raw pace will act as a savour and get some interest from Hyundai/Ford??Mads Ostberg however is probably lapping up Meekes failures as its taking the attention away from his mediocre season. He doesnt seem to be showing half as much determination, in my eyes, that he did when he was at Ford. But perhaps he's aware that a finish is a finish and looks good for the boss, whereas the likes of Meeke see a win as the best way of pleasing the boss?
Kubica is another who now seems to be heading away from the WRC - he just cannot get the results while being on the pace. When running quickly he crashes, or to get a result without crashing as in Poland he was not on the outright pace, wonder how much longer he is willing to keep trying.
The Ford's had an interesting weekend, and M-Sport must have an eye on 2016. After the problems of Friday both Tanak and Evans were consistently in the top 6 times and very closely matched. I really hope Ford do decide to officially re-enter, perhaps the new regs for 2017 will offer this. Will be interesting to see if Tanak & Evans can now push that bit harder to get the results on raw pace.
RyanTank said:
I mean 100% as in development, testing and just throwing money at the outfit, like the WRC of old.
Hyundai were suposed to introduce the new gen i20 around about now, but have put that back to introduce it for the start of the 2016 season.
From the Hyundai website in April - https://motorsport.hyundai.com/en/news/view/5748?p...
I know VW made Mikkelsen wait until Portugal for his updates, but if Hyundai were smart about it and realising that Paddon has been out performing the first choice drivers in the old car he should have had the updates already and not be made to wait until Germany to be on level terms with Thierry and Dani.
Ah, so from the manufaturers rather than the teams - unfortunately unlimited open chequebook motorsport isn't really viable for most companies! It sounds like the delay until 2016 for the new one isn't due to anything from the team, its the factory not having the base car in production for homologation yet.Hyundai were suposed to introduce the new gen i20 around about now, but have put that back to introduce it for the start of the 2016 season.
From the Hyundai website in April - https://motorsport.hyundai.com/en/news/view/5748?p...
I know VW made Mikkelsen wait until Portugal for his updates, but if Hyundai were smart about it and realising that Paddon has been out performing the first choice drivers in the old car he should have had the updates already and not be made to wait until Germany to be on level terms with Thierry and Dani.
I agree about Paddon's car upgrades though, you would think they could have pushed those through faster with the pace he's been showing.
GravelBen said:
Ah, so from the manufaturers rather than the teams - unfortunately unlimited open chequebook motorsport isn't really viable for most companies! It sounds like the delay until 2016 for the new one isn't due to anything from the team, its the factory not having the base car in production for homologation yet.
I agree about Paddon's car upgrades though, you would think they could have pushed those through faster with the pace he's been showing.
I have to say I was equally surprised VW didn't give Andreas M the upgrades sooner ?I agree about Paddon's car upgrades though, you would think they could have pushed those through faster with the pace he's been showing.
Hats off to JML, an impressive drive to keep his nose clean and beat an on form Ogier.
I suspect SO will exact his revenge in just under three weeks time in Germany though ...
Not sure what to make of Meeke, I've admitted on here previously I'm not his biggest fan, but one can't deny his speed, you don't get to set the kind of stage times he did over the weekend by being a muppet behind the wheel.
I haven't rewound the footage of SO's "moment" on the same corner Kris went off at, but I thought Neuville's comments both interesting and in the same breath worrying.
Neuville stating that the Polo must be generating so much more lateral grip in the corners as he couldn't contemplate the lines they were taking in the Polo, in his Hyundai.
That ties up with Meeke's comments earlier this year or late last ? He said the Polo was so superior that unless you were in one you didn't stand a chance of winning. Neuville sounded similarly resigned this weekend.
It sounded like both Neuville and Meeke are overdriving to compensate for their cars shortcomings. Neville admitting that doing so was dangerous (spoken as a result of his shakedown crash, or just a man desperate to get his hands on the new car?)
It's starting to look like Mads O is playing the long game, keep scoring points consistently (even if they're not brilliant results) to Kris Meeke's try and get a win and show 'em I'm the real deal/championship winning material. Mad's strategy will most likely ensure he keeps his job. Meeks looks to be sh*t or bust.
I tend to think I'd back Meeke in a last stage shoot out (gloves off ie without a vocal, overly critical team manager watching over his shoulder)
You can see both sides of the argument for keeping or sacking Meeke. The main question is, who do you replace him with? I really can't see Loeb wanting to come back (why bother?), and any youngster will end up crashing just as much.
Brilliant video from the weekend..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m5EWTGARvQ&in...
Brilliant video from the weekend..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m5EWTGARvQ&in...
I've not seen any of the tv footage from the weekend yet, but this vid shows Meeke's 'off'. (from 1 min on) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnlIedzczwU
I cant really blame Kris for that. You can see he's on the line everyone ahead took over the crest. Just seems his car didnt grip as well as it should have under braking, and he just slid wide. Its not his usual high speed off just a incident that he could have got away with on another corner maybe, had the trees not been there, had it been a ditch maybe he'd have been ok?
Seeing the Polo's first hand through Wales Rally last year it was obvious they were faster through the corners and more controlled. I would have said it was just Ogier's skills making the car look like it was on rails, but all 3 VW's were the same.
Meeke's comments of "if your not in a Polo your not winning" is pretty much spot on.
Every other car seems to be playing catch up and playing for best of the rest status.
Mads Is playing the right game. A finish without the need to rebuild anything is always going to please the boos, a points finish even better. He needs to step it up a gear tho, or he's just going to be repeating Mikko's career of always the bridesmaid. When he was at Ford he showed a lot of potential, obviously as Citroen took him on, but he seems to have settled lately.
I cant really blame Kris for that. You can see he's on the line everyone ahead took over the crest. Just seems his car didnt grip as well as it should have under braking, and he just slid wide. Its not his usual high speed off just a incident that he could have got away with on another corner maybe, had the trees not been there, had it been a ditch maybe he'd have been ok?
Seeing the Polo's first hand through Wales Rally last year it was obvious they were faster through the corners and more controlled. I would have said it was just Ogier's skills making the car look like it was on rails, but all 3 VW's were the same.
Meeke's comments of "if your not in a Polo your not winning" is pretty much spot on.
Every other car seems to be playing catch up and playing for best of the rest status.
Mads Is playing the right game. A finish without the need to rebuild anything is always going to please the boos, a points finish even better. He needs to step it up a gear tho, or he's just going to be repeating Mikko's career of always the bridesmaid. When he was at Ford he showed a lot of potential, obviously as Citroen took him on, but he seems to have settled lately.
Allyc85 said:
Germany and Monte can be done for around £300 if you get a group of 4 together and book it early enough 
New highest average speed record set by the top 3 this weekend! Imagine with another 100bhp, less weight and more aero what speeds they will be doing
What ever happened to the safari rally? New highest average speed record set by the top 3 this weekend! Imagine with another 100bhp, less weight and more aero what speeds they will be doing
I think I've only ever seen YouTube vids of it and it looked insane with suspension struts flying through bonnets and stuff!
Have to feel for Meeke, a talented driver who has waited far too long for his big chance - and when he does Citroen have taken their eye off the ball; and seem more bothered about the WTCC. He is usually the only one to challenge the VW's. I must say, Matton's brand of man management is woeful; continually putting the pressure on. How is that helpful? Whereas Capito at VW is quite the opposite, especially with JML.
I've said it before, but certain nationalities get more leeway for errors; if you're French/ Finnish you're easily forgiven.
I'll be hugely disappointed if Kris hasn't got a top line seat for next year. Unlike circuit racing, experience counts in rallying, and he's up against guys who been at it for years.
I've said it before, but certain nationalities get more leeway for errors; if you're French/ Finnish you're easily forgiven.
I'll be hugely disappointed if Kris hasn't got a top line seat for next year. Unlike circuit racing, experience counts in rallying, and he's up against guys who been at it for years.
Allyc85 said:
Wow ! ! Well when you can see all the cars driving the same corner one after another, there it is, perfectly illustrated. The Polo is in a different class to the Fords, Hyundai's and Citroens.Even when the Polo is sliding and running at big yaw angles, it still has traction, compare that with the others which look like a Group 4 Escort in comparison, (well maybe not THAT bad) but they look very rear power/torque biased, whereas the Polo just drags itself out of corners.
But also look at the other drivers having to waste massive amounts of time getting the car set up to make it turn in at speed (especially after a crest or high speed yump) the VW doesn't seem to need any such time and speed sapping theatrics to get it composed.
Judging by that video I'm guessing VW are running :
A. Some seriously trick diffs.
B. Some seriously trick dampers. We know the latter to be true because last year or this (excuse me, I'm getting old and forgetful ! !)JML wiped a corner of his car on gravel event and the VW management were majorly pissed at him for not having lobbed it in the back of the car and bringing it back to service ......... My guess is a large finders fee ensured it was returned to its rightful owners .......
C. Some seriously clever suspension geometry.
Citroen would be well advised to quit at the end of the year (and ditch their team manager)
Take a years sabbatical and get Meeke to develop a/the new car for 2017.Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 3rd August 21:56
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