FIA World Touring Cars is a joke

[corozin]

I've just been watching coverage of the FIA World Touring Cars from China.

What a bloody shambles. There are more marshals at the track than spectators. How on earth can the FIA sanction supposedly premier series at such disinterested venues? Why do manufacturers bother pouring effort into such stty events?

[Allyc85]

Compared to the BTCC it is extremely dull, Citroen seem to be spending a huge amount of money to beat mediocre opposition! Even the commentators sounded incredibly bored during the second race of last weekend!

I did enjoy the Nurburgring and Portugal rounds though. Maybe the championship should head down the route of fast, long bumpy tracks. Not wide open ones that make the cars look so slow!

[Alex Langheck]

Define a 'Touring car' - what is it? Is it a BTCC car, a DTM car, or an Aussie V8, etc

That is why having a World Championship for touring cars is ridiculous. They are best for a National series.

[DanielSan]

It's a WTCC car. They run to their own spec. Unfortunately only Honda and Citroen seem to be willing to invest as a factory effort and like their F1 effort the WTCC car looks good and the team talk the talk but it's pretty dire.

[MG CHRIS]

Alex Langheck said:

Define a 'Touring car' - what is it? Is it a BTCC car, a DTM car, or an Aussie V8, etc

That is why having a World Championship for touring cars is ridiculous. They are best for a National series.

I agree the idea worked when you had a single rule set like s2000 be stable for a period of time so cars can filter down and teams/cars/drivers can move around but the problem was cost and lack of cars.
Regarding the btcc under s2000 cars outside of imported cars from the wtcc there was the Vectra/civic/lexus is200/focus remove the lexus as it was a bit st and only lasted 2 seasons if that then we were left with a lack of cars and not only that but expensive to build. Hence why ngtc came about which considering we have almost full grids now has worked.

Now ive not watched the wtcc for years. There is a new cheaper world sort of series with tcr which is more production like models which is growing.

[aeropilot]

Yep, dire, heavens know why anyone is bothering with it let alone Loeb.

Haven't even been bothering with making the effort to watch that much of the BTCC either this season, rather watch the Aussie V8's instead especially as the writing is on the wall for them

[corozin]

Yuup... Bathurst next weekend. No pufty little 1.6 engines in that...

[MitchT]

Discovered this a few days ago - same race that the OP mentions. Given its 'world' status I was expecting something superior to the BTCC in terms of power, speed, thrills, etc. Instead what I saw was tantamount to a bunch of women driving Corsa 1.2s to the shops. I won't be throwing any more of my life away on it, that's for sure.

[aeropilot]

corozin said:

Yuup... Bathurst next weekend. No pufty little 1.6 engines in that...

[fcuk1_6]

Yeah I was pretty disappointed when watching this and the crowd numbers were terrible, would be better in my opinion if it was run as a best of the best series with champion team and driver from each national series fielding a couple of cars with ballast/boost added to balance out differences between each series. Probably wouldn't work though as can't see how a car from DTM or the likes could be brought down to the levels of a BTCC car or the likes. I see DTM almost closer to a GT series than Touring car personally.

[Allyc85]

MitchT said:

Discovered this a few days ago - same race that the OP mentions. Given its 'world' status I was expecting something superior to the BTCC in terms of power, speed, thrills, etc. Instead what I saw was tantamount to a bunch of women driving Corsa 1.2s to the shops. I won't be throwing any more of my life away on it, that's for sure.

Wtcc cars are quite dull! At least with the BTCC the cars pitch, roll and slide around, while back firing and letting out a few flames!

[Altrezia]

Allyc85 said:

Wtcc cars are quite dull! At least with the BTCC the cars pitch, roll and slide around, while back firing and letting out a few flames!

I'm not sure it's that different, car wise, but the tracks are what clinches it for me - BTCC race on tiny little tracks that encourages pack racing - the WTCC races on GP tracks which are very long, wide and mostly dull.

[acer12]

Altrezia said:

I'm not sure it's that different, car wise, but the tracks are what clinches it for me - BTCC race on tiny little tracks that encourages pack racing - the WTCC races on GP tracks which are very long, wide and mostly dull.

Exactly my thoughts, tracks are too wide (with no bumps) and straights are too long. The UK has some cracking tracks in fairness to it and long may the BTCC and other racing series use them.

[TheArchitect]

acer12 said:

straights are too long.

I did enjoy the Nurburghring race though and the slip streaming down the long straight!

[entropy]

acer12 said:

Altrezia said:

I'm not sure it's that different, car wise, but the tracks are what clinches it for me - BTCC race on tiny little tracks that encourages pack racing - the WTCC races on GP tracks which are very long, wide and mostly dull.

Exactly my thoughts, tracks are too wide (with no bumps) and straights are too long. The UK has some cracking tracks in fairness to it and long may the BTCC and other racing series use them.

It's not the tracks its the cars that are at fault; too much grip and look like WRC/Rallycross cars. At the Nordschleiffe they trimmed the wings as much as possible and the cars were moving so much I don't think I've heard Martin Haven so excited over current spec cars racing over the entire weekend!

The amount of downforce they're able to produce is disproportionate to the power; Matt Neal has banged on about how at the height of Super Touring the wings created too much dirty air and difficult to follow the car in front; DTM for all its aero problems with its ridiculous aero appendages has resorted to DRS; Aussie V8s has got the balance just about right; and there was great in interview in Evo a few months ago with Mattia Ekstrom about his racing CV and mentioned how much he enjoyed NASCAR - who have been experimenting with reducing DF on ovals with great enthusiasm and positive feedback from drivers.

[ZX10R NIN]

I have to agree with the above both WTCC & BTCC have to much aero grip vs power, & with the circuits they race on in WTCC they need to be faster, & after watching V8 Supercars I can only hope the powers that be at WTCC take note.

[FourWheelDrift]

ZX10R NIN said:

I have to agree with the above both WTCC & BTCC have to much aero grip vs power, & with the circuits they race on in WTCC they need to be faster, & after watching V8 Supercars I can only hope the powers that be at WTCC take note.

The V8 Supercar format is being dropped in 2017 for the next-gen touring car based on production saloons powered by turbocharged 4 & 6 cyl engines.

Sort of going back to the Sierra RS500, Jaguar XJR, Volvo 240T, BMW 635 CSi, Nissan GTR type era. Which didn't last that long before they went back to just the V8s.

[ZX10R NIN]

V8's aren't being dropped but they are allowing 6 & 4 cylinder engines to join the fray but with the miles they do would you want to run a 600bhp 2.0 Turbo for 6hrs or a 5.0 V8, with the miles the Supercars do NA engine would be the engine of choice followed by a Turbo V6

[FourWheelDrift]

Oh, I hadn't realised they were still allowing the V8s, but I have just read this - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119919

[ZX10R NIN]

It's to allow car makers like Nissan to use their GT-R lump for example, their also allowing Coupes in the series so Prodrive could use the Mustang or Mondeo shape HRT will could use the Camaro etc