The 2016 Rallying thread (WRC, ERC, RX, etc)
Discussion
RyanTank said:
over the moon with the Breen news! been following him for a long time and always knew he'd make it one day.
to have come back from the tragedy he had and still be going for it is admirable. especially how he never forgets to mention Jaffa and the role they shared in getting it all started.
new 2017 fiesta with aero and arches has broken cover testing in spain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngH2Ums1yKU
Looks pretty good to me, they've managed to incorporate the fat chin spoiler much better than what VW are currently running.
looks like the recent pics of the development 2017 pics are accurate too. the rear lights are moving to flat rear mounted ones as opposed to the current ones that mould into and up the body.
In other news! had a Wales Rally GB training evening this year and mixed emotions from the bods running it. if the long range forecast is right then it'll be dry, which leaves us with just another identikit gravel rally.
there's a lot of concern over the Chomondeley special. its a very sandy surface apparently that's going to get ruined very quickly, and cost the event a chunk of money, as is the time control in Chester. but someone who's in a position of power said there needs to be something happening over the border. . . regardless of the cost! They're also expect the exact same issues at the Castle as they've been experiencing at Chirk. So unless its the only option, avoid going to Cholmondeley!
Last minute phone call from a WRGB organiser this week sees me moving from my cwshty little spot in Myherin to Dyfnant, was looking forward to my spot in Myherin as I'd managed to get myself up by the windmills where its flat out and great views.
can only make the one day this year due to work so really looking forward to it now! only 2 1/2 weeks to go
I'm marshalling on Myherin this year. Also decided to do the ceremonial start on Thursday. Also need to be home Friday night - daughters birthday over the weekend. Looking forward to it a lot. to have come back from the tragedy he had and still be going for it is admirable. especially how he never forgets to mention Jaffa and the role they shared in getting it all started.
new 2017 fiesta with aero and arches has broken cover testing in spain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngH2Ums1yKU
Looks pretty good to me, they've managed to incorporate the fat chin spoiler much better than what VW are currently running.
looks like the recent pics of the development 2017 pics are accurate too. the rear lights are moving to flat rear mounted ones as opposed to the current ones that mould into and up the body.
In other news! had a Wales Rally GB training evening this year and mixed emotions from the bods running it. if the long range forecast is right then it'll be dry, which leaves us with just another identikit gravel rally.
there's a lot of concern over the Chomondeley special. its a very sandy surface apparently that's going to get ruined very quickly, and cost the event a chunk of money, as is the time control in Chester. but someone who's in a position of power said there needs to be something happening over the border. . . regardless of the cost! They're also expect the exact same issues at the Castle as they've been experiencing at Chirk. So unless its the only option, avoid going to Cholmondeley!
Last minute phone call from a WRGB organiser this week sees me moving from my cwshty little spot in Myherin to Dyfnant, was looking forward to my spot in Myherin as I'd managed to get myself up by the windmills where its flat out and great views.
can only make the one day this year due to work so really looking forward to it now! only 2 1/2 weeks to go
sanf said:
I'm marshalling on Myherin this year. Also decided to do the ceremonial start on Thursday. Also need to be home Friday night - daughters birthday over the weekend. Looking forward to it a lot.
I did Myherin for the first time last year and loved the drive in and spotted some awesome locations. wanted to go again but I was begged last week to move to Dyfnant to cover the flying finish as the team appointed were needed as radio on another stage. I don't mind, haven't done finishes for a while so be nice to blow off the cobwebs!here's hoping all the teams can put up a fight with the 2017 cars!
Interested to hear who Toyota are going with, Hanninen will highly likely be one driver, he's doing all the leg work for it now so would be daft to not use him.
Hyundai are sticking with this years line up, Neuville was very sketchy about his seat next year for a few events now, could just be diversion tactics.
I'd love to see Evans back in the WRC as I think he has got what it takes to challenge for podiums, he showed that last year despite having a fairly s
tty year, and this year in the R5 he's been closer to the WRC Fiestas than I think the WRC boys would like.
One big thing to consider next year are the FIA's plans to only allow certain drivers seats in the 2017 cars, anyone else runs in the production cup in current spec cars, which baffles me tbh, you could easily have a driver that's capable of driving well in a 2017 car on specific events but the FIA wouldn't allow it.
Their plans for more rallies into a condensed calendar is idiotic. and absolutely the wrong way to go for the championship. Rally will never be as TV friendly as circuit racing. It needs the excitement and spectacle of the old events like Kenya/Acropolis etc etc. the endurance aspect simply isn't being achieved these days by not allowing service on certain days. all were seeing is people saving the car with a small fault and doing rally2 the next day. were not going to see the days of drivers smashing a suspension arm with a bloody big rock to continue the day anymore because its easier to get towed back to the service and re start the next day
Interested to hear who Toyota are going with, Hanninen will highly likely be one driver, he's doing all the leg work for it now so would be daft to not use him.
Hyundai are sticking with this years line up, Neuville was very sketchy about his seat next year for a few events now, could just be diversion tactics.
I'd love to see Evans back in the WRC as I think he has got what it takes to challenge for podiums, he showed that last year despite having a fairly s
tty year, and this year in the R5 he's been closer to the WRC Fiestas than I think the WRC boys would like.One big thing to consider next year are the FIA's plans to only allow certain drivers seats in the 2017 cars, anyone else runs in the production cup in current spec cars, which baffles me tbh, you could easily have a driver that's capable of driving well in a 2017 car on specific events but the FIA wouldn't allow it.
Their plans for more rallies into a condensed calendar is idiotic. and absolutely the wrong way to go for the championship. Rally will never be as TV friendly as circuit racing. It needs the excitement and spectacle of the old events like Kenya/Acropolis etc etc. the endurance aspect simply isn't being achieved these days by not allowing service on certain days. all were seeing is people saving the car with a small fault and doing rally2 the next day. were not going to see the days of drivers smashing a suspension arm with a bloody big rock to continue the day anymore because its easier to get towed back to the service and re start the next day
Guys, I'm heading over for the first time this year.
We're basing ourselves in Rhayader and doing Sweet lamb on the Friday. Have you any advice for getting into sweet lamb, first car is due at 8.01am so I assume we'll need to be there from 5.30am onwards due to crowds etc.
As for the Saturday we're undecided as to what stage to do? any recommendations?
We're basing ourselves in Rhayader and doing Sweet lamb on the Friday. Have you any advice for getting into sweet lamb, first car is due at 8.01am so I assume we'll need to be there from 5.30am onwards due to crowds etc.
As for the Saturday we're undecided as to what stage to do? any recommendations?
Francy555 said:
Guys, I'm heading over for the first time this year.
We're basing ourselves in Rhayader and doing Sweet lamb on the Friday. Have you any advice for getting into sweet lamb, first car is due at 8.01am so I assume we'll need to be there from 5.30am onwards due to crowds etc.
As for the Saturday we're undecided as to what stage to do? any recommendations?
get there as early as you can. the car park will fill up the night before (if open then). Sweet lamb attracts many more spectators due to the ease of access and the better/longer viewing advantage of a forest. expect lots of kids too as its one of the more family friendly stages other then Cholmondeley We're basing ourselves in Rhayader and doing Sweet lamb on the Friday. Have you any advice for getting into sweet lamb, first car is due at 8.01am so I assume we'll need to be there from 5.30am onwards due to crowds etc.
As for the Saturday we're undecided as to what stage to do? any recommendations?
I can only recommend Dyfi for the Saturday, I've never been in the other stages. Pantperthog is a non spectator stage, unless you want to really plan it out on an OS map and walk a very long way as there's no spectator parking available. theres barely room to park all the marshals so I was told this week!
Occam's Razor said:
The Citroen announcement is great news. I think they now have the potential to challenge VW for the manufacturers title in 2018, if not next year.
I'm hoping that Meeke and Paddon can challenge Ogier on a regular basis to make it a real fight for the championship.
Paddon will need to raise his game (massively) on Tarmac if he's going to get close to Meeke or Ogier, but I can't say I'm convinced that Hyundai will produce what's needed to beat next years Citroen and VW.I'm hoping that Meeke and Paddon can challenge Ogier on a regular basis to make it a real fight for the championship.
The new Fiesta looks impressive, is that rear diffuser legal ? (either way, I can't see it lasting long once they start taking big cuts on the Tarmac in Spain etc.
On the basis of Ogier's crash in Germany two years ago ? the accidents will be biblical/aircraft like in their ferocity when/if they do happen.
Give the 2017 cars another 100hp and I reckon you'd silence all the whinging Group B luddites once and for all (might need to go up on the wheel/tyre sizes though) ! !
Slippydiff said:
The new Fiesta looks impressive, is that rear diffuser legal ? (either way, I can't see it lasting long once they start taking big cuts on the Tarmac in Spain etc.
On the basis of Ogier's crash in Germany two years ago ? the accidents will be biblical/aircraft like in their ferocity when/if they do happen.
Give the 2017 cars another 100hp and I reckon you'd silence all the whinging Group B luddites once and for all (might need to go up on the wheel/tyre sizes though) ! !
Problem for M-Sport is there are seemingly no top line drivers available. And if they were, they would need big money to tempt them; something M-Sport don't appear to have. On the basis of Ogier's crash in Germany two years ago ? the accidents will be biblical/aircraft like in their ferocity when/if they do happen.
Give the 2017 cars another 100hp and I reckon you'd silence all the whinging Group B luddites once and for all (might need to go up on the wheel/tyre sizes though) ! !
Not sure giving the cars another 100BHP is really the answer - the current cars are fast enough. With more power comes bigger wings & downforce, improved diffs, etc ....all making them corner as if on rails. When what people are crying out for is more spectacle....
ArnageWRC said:
Not sure giving the cars another 100BHP is really the answer - the current cars are fast enough. With more power comes bigger wings & downforce, improved diffs, etc ....all making them corner as if on rails. When what people are crying out for is more spectacle....
Indeed.All it needs is for the FIA to ban 4wd
Less power not more, less grip not more, less cost not more, longer events not shorter, fewer (better) events not more.
All those together is what the sport really needs to bring back to when it was popular (in the UK at least), all those are things which seem to be heading in the opposite direction.
Banning 4wd would be interesting, but the end result would be an all front wheel drive sport, which is hardly the desired effect.
best just stick with Historics anyway.
All those together is what the sport really needs to bring back to when it was popular (in the UK at least), all those are things which seem to be heading in the opposite direction.
Banning 4wd would be interesting, but the end result would be an all front wheel drive sport, which is hardly the desired effect.
best just stick with Historics anyway.
velocemitch said:
Less power not more, less grip not more, less cost not more, longer events not shorter, fewer (better) events not more.
All those together is what the sport really needs to bring back to when it was popular (in the UK at least), all those are things which seem to be heading in the opposite direction.
Banning 4wd would be interesting, but the end result would be an all front wheel drive sport, which is hardly the desired effect.
best just stick with Historics anyway.
Amen to your first and last sentences. All those together is what the sport really needs to bring back to when it was popular (in the UK at least), all those are things which seem to be heading in the opposite direction.
Banning 4wd would be interesting, but the end result would be an all front wheel drive sport, which is hardly the desired effect.
best just stick with Historics anyway.
I'm not sure that banning 4wd would mean an all fwd sport.....if the regs are as free as they are now, with no homolgation specials....then the manufacturers might just turn the engines through 90deg and run the sort of spec they are now just without all the front driveshaft gubbins.
If you look at the same sort of cars that are in WRX they are all 4wd with longitudinal engines.
It could easily work....its a sillouette formula as it is, so making it 2wd won't make a difference. At least there could be some variation, some makes might stick with fwd, some might go rwd.....which would be even better.
velocemitch said:
Less power not more, less grip not more, less cost not more, longer events not shorter, fewer (better) events not more.All those together is what the sport really needs to bring back to when it was popular (in the UK at least), all those are things which seem to be heading in the opposite direction.
How is it pretty much everyone with an interest in rallying, that spans longer than the week of Rally GB, can see this yet the FIA cant!?velocemitch said:
Banning 4wd would be interesting, but the end result would be an all front wheel drive sport, which is hardly the desired effect.
The BRC tried the whole banning of 4wd thing. and the championship tanked to the point they didnt run a series last year, before revamping it and allowing up to R5 cars this year.I couldn't see VW/Ford/Citroen/Hyundai making small rwd cars just to compete in the championship. unless homologation specials like the days of old, but the costs in that will outweigh their gains. the distinct lack of hot hatch rally reps available these days shows this. there still isn't a Fiesta RS available. Citroen's last attempt at a rally edition was the C4 Loeb which was just fancy stickers and a signature plate. Hyundai do a "Rally inspired i20", but its just a name on their turbo i20, nothing at all sporty/rally about it. the Polo doesn't have a WRC/rally road version either as far as I know?
velocemitch said:
best just stick with Historics anyway.
Preach! although even that's suffering with the cancellation of events like the Jim Clark and the running order shennanigans on national events. competitors are pulling out all the time as its having an impact on their budget running on stty forests.The tarmac series sees quite a lot more entries in historics tho :thmubup:
great news!
Rally4wales facebook said:
Rally4Wales is delighted to confirm that a new agreement has been reached between Rally4Wales, Motor Sports Association (MSA) and Natural Resources Wales for special stage rallying to continue in the forests of Wales for the next three years. We can confirm that our petition to the National Assembly of Wales has been formally withdrawn as of Friday last week as a result of this decision.
Rally4Wales will create a new, 'not for profit' enterprise to work directly with organising clubs to ensure that NRW forest roads used for rallying are repaired to a standard agreed with NRW. Part of this process will be extensive route surveys pre-event, post-event and post-repair using technology to demonstrate the works completed. The new company set up by Rally4Wales will directly complete the repair work needed to the road infrastructure.
This is a completely new model of working for all parties. Critically, the costs will be sustainable, working out to be near identical to the previous 2015 MSA Forest rates for first and second use of stages, plus RPI at approximately 0.8%.
This new agreement covers clubman, national and International level rallying within the NRW estate, including Britain’s round of the FIA World Rally Championship, Wales Rally GB.
Further details will be announced in the coming weeks, but given the long period of uncertainty and the extremely real risk that the future of the sport was under critical threat – today marks the beginning of a completely new chapter for rallying in Wales at all levels of the sport.
Finally, thank you to every single person involved in supporting the Rally4Wales campaign. Yes YOU reading this now and so many countless others. Either way, we can’t thank you enough for the support, good wishes and direct involvement taken by so many people to support our actions.
Diolch yn fawr pawb / Thank you everyone!
The team at Rally4Wales.
The actual statement is here below from the MSA today:
Joint statement on forest rallying in Wales
Following extensive high level discussions between all parties in recent weeks, a totally new outline concept has been agreed for a deal to allow international and national level rallying to continue in Wales on the Natural Resources Wales (NRW) operated forestry estate.
Rally4Wales will manage a ‘self-repair’ team attending to the forest roads after each rallying activity, resulting in organising clubs working directly with Rally4Wales to enable repairs to be made. It is anticipated that costs will be in line with the pre-2016 forestry charges for at least the next three years.
Rob Jones, Chief Executive, said: “We are very pleased with the progress made. There are details and formalities to be agreed but the MSA is certainly optimistic.”
Jamie Edwards, founder of Rally4Wales, said: “This is an exciting, innovative new concept to sustainably underpin forestry stage rallying in Wales.”
Tim Jones, Executive Director Operations, North and Mid Wales for NRW, said: “There are still a few details to deal with, but we are optimistic that this innovative new approach will enable NRW to continue to host Rallies into the future.”
All three organisations will provide further details in due course
Rally4Wales will create a new, 'not for profit' enterprise to work directly with organising clubs to ensure that NRW forest roads used for rallying are repaired to a standard agreed with NRW. Part of this process will be extensive route surveys pre-event, post-event and post-repair using technology to demonstrate the works completed. The new company set up by Rally4Wales will directly complete the repair work needed to the road infrastructure.
This is a completely new model of working for all parties. Critically, the costs will be sustainable, working out to be near identical to the previous 2015 MSA Forest rates for first and second use of stages, plus RPI at approximately 0.8%.
This new agreement covers clubman, national and International level rallying within the NRW estate, including Britain’s round of the FIA World Rally Championship, Wales Rally GB.
Further details will be announced in the coming weeks, but given the long period of uncertainty and the extremely real risk that the future of the sport was under critical threat – today marks the beginning of a completely new chapter for rallying in Wales at all levels of the sport.
Finally, thank you to every single person involved in supporting the Rally4Wales campaign. Yes YOU reading this now and so many countless others. Either way, we can’t thank you enough for the support, good wishes and direct involvement taken by so many people to support our actions.
Diolch yn fawr pawb / Thank you everyone!
The team at Rally4Wales.
The actual statement is here below from the MSA today:
Joint statement on forest rallying in Wales
Following extensive high level discussions between all parties in recent weeks, a totally new outline concept has been agreed for a deal to allow international and national level rallying to continue in Wales on the Natural Resources Wales (NRW) operated forestry estate.
Rally4Wales will manage a ‘self-repair’ team attending to the forest roads after each rallying activity, resulting in organising clubs working directly with Rally4Wales to enable repairs to be made. It is anticipated that costs will be in line with the pre-2016 forestry charges for at least the next three years.
Rob Jones, Chief Executive, said: “We are very pleased with the progress made. There are details and formalities to be agreed but the MSA is certainly optimistic.”
Jamie Edwards, founder of Rally4Wales, said: “This is an exciting, innovative new concept to sustainably underpin forestry stage rallying in Wales.”
Tim Jones, Executive Director Operations, North and Mid Wales for NRW, said: “There are still a few details to deal with, but we are optimistic that this innovative new approach will enable NRW to continue to host Rallies into the future.”
All three organisations will provide further details in due course
RyanTank said:
The BRC tried the whole banning of 4wd thing. and the championship tanked to the point they didnt run a series last year, before revamping it and allowing up to R5 cars this year.
I couldn't see VW/Ford/Citroen/Hyundai making small rwd cars just to compete in the championship. unless homologation specials like the days of old, but the costs in that will outweigh their gains.
See my post above.....banning 2wd doesn't mean manufacturers having to make rwd homolgation specials again.....if the rules are written in a way to allow them the free choice of fwd or rwd. The cars already bare no real relation to the equivalent production cars anyway.I couldn't see VW/Ford/Citroen/Hyundai making small rwd cars just to compete in the championship. unless homologation specials like the days of old, but the costs in that will outweigh their gains.
RyanTank said:
Preach! although even that's suffering with the cancellation of events like the Jim Clark and the running order shennanigans on national events. competitors are pulling out all the time as its having an impact on their budget running on stty forests.
The tarmac series sees quite a lot more entries in historics tho :thmubup:
Yes I noticed an upswing in Tarmac entries of Historics, getting more variety now too. I think its because a lot are turning away from the Forests because of the running order business and the fact the (expensive) Escorts are so dominant... (a certain Fiat not withstanding). Wasn't there about ten Mini's out in the Isle of Man?, that can only be good.tty forests.The tarmac series sees quite a lot more entries in historics tho :thmubup:
I'm more interested in Road based events myself, but I could get tempted by Historic Tarmac Stage stuff if I had any sort of Budget.
aeropilot said:
ArnageWRC said:
Not sure giving the cars another 100BHP is really the answer - the current cars are fast enough. With more power comes bigger wings & downforce, improved diffs, etc ....all making them corner as if on rails. When what people are crying out for is more spectacle....
Indeed.All it needs is for the FIA to ban 4wd
The reality of the matter is they were crude, dangerous, ill-handling b
hes to drive, their speed a function of brute horsepower rather than any real finesse in their chassis or transmissions (or brakes and tyres).The modern cars are an amazing spectacle (not that you'd think it from the hopeless TV coverage) and the additional power of the 2017 cars will make them even more spectacular (and I suspect considerably quicker than the Group B cars ever were).
A certain C McRae said that the Group A Impreza running a 38 or 40mm restrictor (can't remember which) was pretty much the perfect blend of grip and power.
As I've said on here before, I think there's room for a European Tarmac championship for GT3/Cup/Challenge cars. Imagine Audi R8 LMS, Ferrari 458's, Lamborghini Hurracans, Porsche 991 GT3 RSR's etc being driven along the roads of Corsica, the vineyards of Germany or the mountains of Madeira etc ! !
Slippydiff said:
But for all that, there are still plenty of individuals who think that the Group B era produced the doyen of rally cars (and whilst I was lucky to have witnessed them first hand in 84, 85 & 86, I don't subscribe to the theory they were the best thing that happened to the WRC).
Indeed.....Group B killed rallying for me, and I said as much at the time 30+ years ago.....and got derided by just about everyone for saying it.For me, the late 70's Group 2/4 era produced the doyen of rally cars, and the evidence that it was the era with the most ever works-manufacturer teams competing at the same time would support that.
Slippydiff said:
As I've said on here before, I think there's room for a European Tarmac championship for GT3/Cup/Challenge cars. Imagine Audi R8 LMS, Ferrari 458's, Lamborghini Hurracans, Porsche 991 GT3 RSR's etc being driven along the roads of Corsica, the vineyards of Germany or the mountains of Madeira etc ! !
Completely agree!! Can you imagine a rallying equivalent of the Blancpain race Series?? The current ERC is pretty anaemic, as well as invisible due to the poor promotion from Eurosport. Sportscars have plenty of international series below the WEC; why shouldn't rallying have a decent International series below the WRC?
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