Susie Wolff's Dare to be Different Initiative #D2BD
Discussion
DelicaL400 said:
Complains about perceived sexism in motorsport.
Then suggests the population of this predominantly male forum is too stupid for deep discussion.
Brilliant.
This is very strange. Why would you imagine I think anyone's stupid? I just wanted to stick to the topic at hand not start going on about perceptions of beauty Then suggests the population of this predominantly male forum is too stupid for deep discussion.
Brilliant.
I'm celebrating something I think's really positive, here. No complaining.
You might need to replace your filters, man. ECP have some good deals on.
I don't think what stopped you getting into motorsport 30 years ago applies in a day where social media can tell you what your favorite racer is having for breakfast.
If anything, now it's the other way around, a young girl with some driving talent or an interest in cars will get 10x the encouragement and sponsorship opportunities a young lad will...
If anything, now it's the other way around, a young girl with some driving talent or an interest in cars will get 10x the encouragement and sponsorship opportunities a young lad will...
PhillipM said:
I don't think what stopped you getting into motorsport 30 years ago applies in a day where social media can tell you what your favorite racer is having for breakfast.
If anything, now it's the other way around, a young girl with some driving talent or an interest in cars will get 10x the encouragement and sponsorship opportunities a young lad will...
I don't think my specific experience is directly applicable today, or even at all. Just being open about where I am coming from If anything, now it's the other way around, a young girl with some driving talent or an interest in cars will get 10x the encouragement and sponsorship opportunities a young lad will...
I was saying we've not YET come far enough in those intervening 30 years. Now things are very different. I think this initiative will help more young lasses realise they can do it too. Maybe as you say, there's already a bit of positive discrimination, though I am not sure about 10x positive
. Sometimes such things are necessary. Eventually there will be a lot more women in motorsport - and a re-levelled playing field with no need to worry about gender at all. ...and then we'll have come far enough
I only mentioned my own negative experiences to try and illustrate the sort of daftness that sometimes occurs.
I feel that the more we promote and encourage women in motorsport, the more such barriers will just fade away. I'll be proud if I can help with that. I will encourage anyone with enthusiasm and talent in motorsport, quite frankly!
Just... this particular thing is about females. 
I think we might be getting o/t a bit because this is an opportunity to get together and encourage females, no one's giving away an F1 seat.
Also - I posted this just to say hey, if anyone's interested, take a look. If you're not, that's cool
I'm wary of giving any more of my personal answers and opinions because I am not a representative of the movement, just a fan.
Sincerely, thanks for engaging with me in this discussion because I have learned from it. Its really interesting to find out about people's gut reaction to this. I also see how my words can perhaps come across in a way I didn't foresee or intend. I can work on that.
Cheers.
Also - I posted this just to say hey, if anyone's interested, take a look. If you're not, that's cool
I'm wary of giving any more of my personal answers and opinions because I am not a representative of the movement, just a fan.
Sincerely, thanks for engaging with me in this discussion because I have learned from it. Its really interesting to find out about people's gut reaction to this. I also see how my words can perhaps come across in a way I didn't foresee or intend. I can work on that.
Cheers.
DelicaL400 said:
Complains about perceived sexism in motorsport.
Then suggests the population of this predominantly male forum is too stupid for deep discussion.
Brilliant.
Are you mental? Honestly? How on earth have you taken that from somebody saying something is a bit deep for PH? You, my friend, are highlighting this community's biggest problem - people who come on here determined to pick fault with others and argue the toss for no real reason at all. Then suggests the population of this predominantly male forum is too stupid for deep discussion.
Brilliant.
As a man I am really disappointed that some of my fellow posters have pretty much proven that an initiative like this IS needed by your own petty responses and bickering. Why on earth is it such an issue for you that somebody wants to create a platform for people to access an industry they might have thought wasn't open to them? Why are some people so offended by it?
Not everybody knows how or where to get the information themselves. So people know girls who are already involved without the need for such an initiative? Great, I am really pleased that's the case. Why does that, however, mean that nobody else should have the benefit of some help to get where they want to be?
Susie Wolff may not have been quite good enough to make it all the way, but why should that stop her trying to help somebody else take that final step?
In general there's a real lack of publicity for any of the initiatives to get young people into motorsport, be it as a driver or as a mechanic, engineer or car designer etc. If Susie Wolff pushing her initiative encourages people like the MSA to push theirs a bit harder and more visibly, then everyone's a winner, no?
As a racing fan, predominantly F1, I want to see the best people in the sport. I don't care if it's a man or a woman. Anything that can help make that happen is alright by me.
TroubledSoul said:
In general there's a real lack of publicity for any of the initiatives to get young people into motorsport, be it as a driver or as a mechanic, engineer or car designer etc.
Exactly, so it wouldn't have been difficult to make this about getting more talent from both sexes into motorsport and engineering, aim the events at everyone and then educate that being male or female you can go into motorsport or engineering as a career - rather than exclude the young lads that are interested simply because they happen to have grown a penis?I don't have to support everything that gets people into motorsport if that thing itself creates the very divide it's supposed to be working against. I wish Suzie all the luck in the world in drawing more kids and young talent into the sport, but I don't support the way she's gone about it.
DiscoColin said:
And for female engineers then surely the best role model of the day would have to be Leena Gade - is she on Susie's list? Because if so that would lend a far greater weight of credibility that Susie.
[/footnote]
That was the first name I looked for on the Ambassadors list at the Show at the weekend - and no, sadly she isn't as in her respective field Leena is arguably the UK's greatest female talent in Motorsport ever.[/footnote]
Not only has she won LM24 three times - her mere presence in the WEC as a Chief Engineer made soppy grid girls look even more outdated and redundant than they are already.
On being asked if she considers herself a role model..
Leena Gade said:
The answer is no. I can sort of see it. I hope it's because the engineering is what sticks out as something to be a role model for. Not being a female role model because for me, that's the wrong reason to be seen as being successful. For me it's about doing the job properly. People often ask me if it is hard being a female engineer on a race team where almost every member is a guy. The answer is always the same – it’s as hard as you want it to be.
Edited by RobGT81 on Wednesday 20th January 13:59
Eric Mc said:
Another go at "Formula Woman".
It's a very different thing to that. it's not a championship itself, it's somethign to encourage women in all aspects of motorsport not just driving. The events they are having are more educational events not race days, although that's not to say there won't be races but it definitely isn't any form of women's championship.The list of mentors isn't necessarily the final list so just because you haven't seen a certain name on it so far it doesn't mean you won't ever although of course it's up to the individual if they want to be involved. It's very much still developing at the moment.
Edited by Marc W on Friday 22 January 19:40
It's not important that ANYBODY go motor racing. Motor racing isn't important. It doesn't matter. We have exactly the number of racing drivers that we need, and I don't think we really care what gender they are.
It's just a sport. If the girls want to do it, fine, no problem. Just like the boys. If there's a few more successful female racing drivers then great. But also, so what?
The best racing driver who ever lived never even got to sit in a car. Who knows what gender they were?
Total non-problem.
What is the actual gain from encouraging a group of people to go motor racing who don't currently go motor racing? Why are we excited to be targeting women as a slice of the population instead of, say, gingers, or people from the Peak District, or the freakishly tall?
Who on earth is 'empowered' by someone else with a coincidental personal attribute being good at motor racing? Has Lewis empowered the good people of Stevenage? People with silly earrings?
This is more about constructing Suzie a career than anything, IMO.
It's just a sport. If the girls want to do it, fine, no problem. Just like the boys. If there's a few more successful female racing drivers then great. But also, so what?
The best racing driver who ever lived never even got to sit in a car. Who knows what gender they were?
Total non-problem.
What is the actual gain from encouraging a group of people to go motor racing who don't currently go motor racing? Why are we excited to be targeting women as a slice of the population instead of, say, gingers, or people from the Peak District, or the freakishly tall?
Who on earth is 'empowered' by someone else with a coincidental personal attribute being good at motor racing? Has Lewis empowered the good people of Stevenage? People with silly earrings?
This is more about constructing Suzie a career than anything, IMO.
Whilst I'm against positive discrimination in general, I actually find myself supporting this campaign. I've experienced very little direct sexism in motorsport and lucky that some of the best amateur racers I know are female. That said, it is out there.
I have seen female marshals and drivers receive criticism that has not been directed at males in the same situation. I believe just 5% of competition licenses issued are to women. Would I have got into marshalling, officiating or competing without strong female influences? Probably not.
My grandfather would never have dreamed of showing me how to fettle a car, my daughter wants the car we are putting together for her, she will have to help do it. Things change when you see good role models. It doesn't exclude boys and men, they often have people more willing to help them get involved in my experience. How many people remember Pat Moss, despite her arguably being more talented than her sibling?
I have seen female marshals and drivers receive criticism that has not been directed at males in the same situation. I believe just 5% of competition licenses issued are to women. Would I have got into marshalling, officiating or competing without strong female influences? Probably not.
My grandfather would never have dreamed of showing me how to fettle a car, my daughter wants the car we are putting together for her, she will have to help do it. Things change when you see good role models. It doesn't exclude boys and men, they often have people more willing to help them get involved in my experience. How many people remember Pat Moss, despite her arguably being more talented than her sibling?
If more men played netball it still wouldn't get me interested in netball.
I'm not going to suddenly take an interest in something just because there's an initative to get more of my gender involved.
If it was something I, as a man, would be interested in but am put off getting involved with as there is no avenue for my gender to do so then that's one thing, but there is literally nothing stopping females participating in motorsport.
I'm not going to suddenly take an interest in something just because there's an initative to get more of my gender involved.
If it was something I, as a man, would be interested in but am put off getting involved with as there is no avenue for my gender to do so then that's one thing, but there is literally nothing stopping females participating in motorsport.
Centurion07 said:
If more men played netball it still wouldn't get me interested in netball.
I'm not going to suddenly take an interest in something just because there's an initative to get more of my gender involved.
If it was something I, as a man, would be interested in but am put off getting involved with as there is no avenue for my gender to do so then that's one thing, but there is literally nothing stopping females participating in motorsport.
But more men playing netball may highlight it as an option for other men and therefore more men become interested? I'm not going to suddenly take an interest in something just because there's an initative to get more of my gender involved.
If it was something I, as a man, would be interested in but am put off getting involved with as there is no avenue for my gender to do so then that's one thing, but there is literally nothing stopping females participating in motorsport.
And yes there is nothing stopping girls getting involved in motorsport but I still believe it is not as easy as it is for boys. Certainly the environment is not always as welcoming in my opinion.
a7girl said:
Not directly. And I never said it was. My personal opinion is that its due to a myriad of reasons, lack of role models and lack of interest in what is perceived to be a 'male' interest predominantly.
But if there's a lack of interest from women, then it's QED surely?For example, my wife has held a race licence for many years, as has her sister. The reason they ended up with them is because their father was a keen clubman racer and dragged the whole family around so he could compete. It wasn't so much a case of 'if you can't beat them, join them', than they didn't really know any different. It was a good way to bond with him too I expect, so your role model analogy has some validity in this respect. However, there are plenty of racing families that I know whose girls have zero interst.
Conversely, my family had zero interest/involvement in motorsport and yet both myself and my brother ended up racing. However, my sisters did not and have zero interest in any motorsport (including that which their brothers are involved in
).In my experience, women have as much opportunity to get into motorsport as any man. You just need to get up and go and do it. It's certainly not a case of discrimination.
If there isn't enough interest, then the simple truth is probably that there just aren't that many women who want to do it?
No issue at all with what Suzie is trying to do, but I don't expect a tsunami of interest/female racing talent to emerge as a result.
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